{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Questions for WOC who are in a creative role: 1. What’s the longest stint you’ve had at an agency? 2. How long have you been in the industry? Speaking to a good friend tonight and we have a theory about how the trauma experienced by black women in predominantly white creative departments drives them from jobs at a higher rate. Any truth to that?", "post_id": "6102189daa1245001f8788b6", "reply_count": 26, "vote_count": 4, "bowl_id": "594f0b7a1753b200102d1a8f", "bowl_name": "Creatives" }

Questions for WOC who are in a creative role: 1. What’s the longest stint you’ve had at an agency? 2. How long have you been in the industry? Speaking to a good friend tonight and we have a theory about how the trauma experienced by black women in predominantly white creative departments drives them from jobs at a higher rate. Any truth to that?

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I’m Asian American but I was just thinking about this the other day. I sometimes feel like I’m in an endless cycle of leaving jobs because of harassment or because I’m underpaid/undervalued. I’ve had a rough journey so I imagine it’s even tougher for a Black woman. 1. A little under 2 years. 2. 11 years.

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Omg. Asian here as well. But I am hitting my 5 year mark at my current job. Feeling undervalued for sure. My last job I was there for 4 years. I need to jump more.

Out of curiosity are you a Black female?

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I'm sure she's getting the double punch of being Black and a woman. As a quiet Asian man, I often recognize the same treatment that women experience at work. Talked over. Ignored. Told I'm not flexible. Told I'm too confident. None of this happened when I kept my mouth shut and nodded along like a model minority.

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Black women are often deemed aggressive, hard to work with, or inept in their roles. I think the last AIGA census I looked at had them at less than 3% of the overall creative workforce (I believe Black creatives in general were 5%). Black male here, and the few Black female creative peers I’ve had in my career were either pushed out, had no support so left, or were let go by white management.

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https://www.instagram.com/p/CRTlcLFBMjQ/ here’s the latest info.. months old

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As a woman creative leader, I’ve had to jump jobs in order to get paid the “white dude salary” for my level. Pretty much every time. I can only imagine that is amplified for WOC. If agencies paid great creatives what they’re worth, we wouldn’t constantly be poached. The money is part of it.

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I’m Latina. But she is and was sharing her experience of most times being the only black woman on creative teams at agencies of various sizes and specialties.

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It’s an interesting theory. It’s definitely discouraging to feel like an “other.” Did she go into ways she experienced trauma?

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The more I’ve moved up in my career, the more issues. Recently all my stints have been under two years (Latina here).

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Wow, interesting. We talked at length and she mostly mentioned the constant micro-aggressions, being told she’s emotional when she stands up for work or pushes back, being gaslit by men (most times white, sometimes black). Getting passed up for positions or promotions she was promised or worked towards. She’s been in the industry for about 15 years. Longest stint was about 3 years.

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Omg yes. I know a few WOC who sadly have left the industry for that reason. For me, no more than 2 years + i've been working for about 7 years. I've faced a lot of challenges getting promoted and I'm so over it.

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I’m sorry that you’ve had to go through that and I hope it doesn’t push you out of the industry. There are companies out there who really put their money where their mouth is but they’re few and far between.

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I’m your first comment: Replace “WOC” word with “diversity”. 👌 Thank you

I don't get this disassociation from color at all. Where I'm from, racial relations and politics are not like America. It doesn't get intellectualized and abstracted into "politically correct" or "race theory" language. I had to google "white passing". P1 this is not trying to be rude or incindiary but do you not truly truly see color? Are you ignoring it on purpose? Or is there some avoidance or shame (sorry I am not trying to make this sound incindiary but it's an honest question) involved? Re. the avoidance or shame question, growing up, there were Asian peers who came home from studying abroad. They'd speak with a fake accent (British, American, etc) and behave in a way that set them apart. It seemed to made them feel good about themselves, elevated from locals who never left home. Not unlike the development of the British accent. ^^^ I assume you don't mean that. But aren't all of us BIPOC identified by our colors? It's how we move through the world. I'm Asian. My skin is yellow. I'm 100% sure this is how the world identifies me. This is who I see in the mirror. It is in parts my heritage, my culture, and my identity. I'm very curious if your Asian boyfriend feels the same way. Or maybe it's different being born in America in a predominantly white culture? I wonder if diversity > color in a bid to transcend color towards better race relations becomes a form of (unintended) white washing. I'm sure white folks still see themselves as white. I left Asia 20+ years ago. My mental state is no longer Asian. I left my birth country, grew up in Australia, lived there plus China and now US. That makes 4 countries that's shaped me. That's my diversity. From lived experiences that I don't think is associated with my skin color except wherw I experienced racism in Australia, China, and US. I see and recognize color. I acknowledge it as a marker of our differences so I know not to make assumptions and think we have any common ground. That informs my mindfulness when interacting with others so as to not step on their toes. I do the same back home if I interact with other races. Color is a signaler that I can't take for granted certain assumptions. It is not unlike the courtesy and etiquette extended to meeting any person for the first time and not mouth off like Larry David.

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Great, and a very important post. Can you share some specific examples of inappropriate behavior, unfair situations, other creatives acting badly? Anything to get some context going so everyone can learn from you 🙏🏼

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