{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Recently had my opinion shut down because “as a white male, I was coming from a position of privilege and could not possibly understand”. Excuse me?\n\nMy skin pigmentation has more bearing than any life experience, education and past hardships and condemns me to being inherently incapable of ever being able to grasp certain concepts?", "post_id": "61478cc4dc867c0025e1f0c7", "reply_count": 236, "vote_count": 81, "bowl_id": "5e8656b80bdab1002a7355dc", "bowl_name": "Confession " }

Recently had my opinion shut down because “as a white male, I was coming from a position of privilege and could not possibly understand”. Excuse me? My skin pigmentation has more bearing than any life experience, education and past hardships and condemns me to being inherently incapable of ever being able to grasp certain concepts?

likefunnyhelpful
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The argument that one has no standing because of lack of belonging to XYZ oppressed group is a slippery slope. Let me give some examples. Take the Uighurs who are being oppressed by the Chinese government. Are we not allowed to have an opinion on this if we are not Chinese? The Chinese government certainly argues so. Returning to the ‘white men don’t know racial oppression’ argument- what if the white man in question was, as an Italian or Ukrainian in the early 20th century, discriminated against in much of America? Are we to say, sorry, wasn’t as bad as that experienced by the Blacks? Ok, then are you trying to invalidate my experience as an Asian cos my ancestors weren’t literally in chains, but had it pretty bad anyway? My point is, there is a very thin line between trying to put your victimhood on a special pedestal, and making sure people understand the depth of your group’s suffering. Be careful that you don’t put other people down just to make you’re all special and authentic

likesmart

p2 - “Most people” = white men who owned land. Again, let’s try reading a book

It is certain that you have absolutely had hardships. This has no bearing on the fact that you have not experienced hardships due specifically to the color of your skin. When we see that someone has endured a hardship, we are all better served to approach with empathy and try to understand, rather than defend ourselves. On the contrary, when everyone does have a seat at the table, and you’re approaching with empathy, no point of view or opinion is invalidated and as long as they are constructive all should be taken under consideration.

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The fact that OP won’t say what the topic being discussed was tells me all I need to know.

likefunnysmarthelpful

Free speech? Nothing is free. You either prepay or post pay. When it comes to speech it's mostly paid in arrears, in the form of consequences eg getting shutdown. Free speech is a fallacy

Your skin color will always bias your experience because there will be things that people will never do to you and therefore despite your empathy you won’t be able to apprehend enough. Imagine you’ve read all the books in the world about riding a bike, asked all the bike rider in the world, do you really know what it’s like to ride a bike. This is just the difference between theory and practice. Being minority is something you can grasp in theory and play your part but it will always be different.

likefunnyhelpfulsmart

Walt Disney, your wrong. What your describing above is the difference between prejudice and discrimination, prejudice is opinions or thoughts and discrimination is the action. Both prejudice and discrimination are racism.

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Respectfully, there are going to be things that you: 1) may think you have a grasp on but you don’t 2) may think you have a grasp on but you don’t understand the magnitude/nuance of it 3) you may actually have a grasp on but it isn’t your place to speak on it/your opinion doesn’t matter

likefunnyhelpfulsmart

McK everyone deserves to have an opinion. You can disagree with it, say they don’t fully understand, whatever - but they still get to have it. It may be your opinion that they should defer to someone else’s views, but they have the right to their own view nonetheless. Freedom of speech implicitly also assumes freedom of thought. You don’t get to control the way other people think or feel. Well within your rights to think they’re wrong (and tell them that) but everyone gets an opinion.

likesmart

Everybody gets to have an opinion. As a left-leaning person I’m loath to agree with fox news on anything. That said, I agree that free speech (the principle, not the legal right to it) is facing more opposition in public culture than it has in a while. IMO stances like “you don’t get to have an opinion because you’re white” are A) anti-free speech and B) racist

likefunny

Opinions are based on the life experiences and facts we draw on. Maybe instead, one could share new facts and experiences to change OPs opinion, instead of informing him that his opinion is, essentially, irrelevant?

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Sorry to break it to you but yes. Just as being a man, regardless of your life experiences and those that woman close to you might have shared with you, does not subject you to ever being able to grasp certain concepts/ situations that a woman might go through.

likefunny

Clearly PWC2 didn’t know so you can’t lose the attitude

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Now you know a little bit of what it feels like to be excluded. Sit with that feeling and realize that this is how POC feel on a daily basis at work.

likefunnyhelpful

Honestly did you even read what I wrote… Your first paragraph has literally nothing to do with anything I said. Where did I say that we should be discriminatory to anyone, where did I say we should teach disadvantaged kids they can’t be successful? When did I say we should teach poc that all white people hate them? You’re putting a lot of words in my mouth that I didn’t even allude to. I said I’m sick of the narrative that you have to be a f***ing super hero and no one can consider the hardships you have faced in life as a direct result of institutional racism. I’m Black and successful. African immigrant family. You don’t have to tell me anything about being PoC and overcoming because that’s my family’s story too. I never said that it wasn’t possible and that it’s not admirable. I am pointing out that that’s not going to be the case for everyone, because there are a lot of obstacles as a direct result of institutional racism. Pointing out that blaming people for being in poverty when they had limited choices is not fair. I’m saying that it’s not the answer to act like those things are not a factor and that if you didn’t boost yourself out of poverty despite all the obstacles against you that it’s all on you. Not the racist institutions that keep you there. Seriously. I have taken many classes on inequality, racism, and volunteer in my own predominantly Black predominantly impoverished community. There is so much more to it than what you are reducing it to. Could really benefit from educating yourself beyond your own personal experience.

Was the topic abortion access in Texas? Here’s the thing with that, you’re entitled to your opinion, but just know that white Christian men have a history of controlling womens reproductive freedoms (or lack thereof). So unless you’ve also got an opinion on giving / making men using birth control methods more required/prominent and listening more to women, I don’t want to hear another white MANs perspective. That’s all we’ve BEEN hearing. It’s time for different voices. I don’t know why you have to be so fragile as to not understand this concept. Things are no longer about what you have to say. And that’s a great thing!

likefunnyhelpful

D1, just to clarify, is the saying of the thought about selfishness cruel, which I can support, or the thought itself which is wrong? Because I feel that it I were to leave my wife and child now, that would be pretty selfish of me, if I had any choice about it. I suppose people will then argue about whether those who suicide have real choice or agency especially if there’s mental illness.

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What was your opinion?

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This.

Don’t associate with people who say things like that. I find they’re insufferable to be around.

likefunny

Agreed.

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This is a fine example of being racist towards white people. Something that liberals like to pretend does not exist.

likefunny

Although I don’t agree with how PWC2 phrased it SD1 prejudice and discrimination are in the definition of racism. It’s fine if you don’t want to hear an uninformed opinion but there’s no need to go into a conversation with a preconceived notion that someone is uninformed due to a physical trait.

likesmart

Identify as a woman of color

likefunnysmart

Legend.

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Op it is a lazy argument tactic used due to the opposing view being illogical and emotionally based. It should be a true idea meritocracy where skin color has no bearing and the best and most articulate view points rise to the top. Does “Some ideas are more equal than others” ring any literary bells people? Because that is where this little thought experiment leads.

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True that. This is "Animal Farm" in a modern context. Somewhere, Orwell is shaking his head at all this.

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For everyone’s reference, I’m not an American and in my home country I’m not part of the majority culture. I have a darker complexion than average, and can be taken for white or something else. I’ve lived and worked in a number of different countries and can speak several languages (each of which embody very different ways of conceptualizing the world). I understand that the opinions of certain groups are quietly ignored or marginalized, but stating that the validity of my opinion depends on whose group my skin colour most-closely matched seems very unprogressive to me.

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Do not use MLK to make your point. Look, many people have said it but there are topics and situations where you can’t possibly understand the depths of a topic because you haven’t lived it. Doesn’t mean you can’t be empathetic. Doesn’t mean you can’t have an opinion on it. Doesn’t mean you should be shut out from talking about it. What it does mean is that you should realize your audience is one that might be more sensitive than you about it and consider that when engage in a conversation about XYZ. Whoever said you can’t have an opinion because you’re white is wrong. You can. But to me it sounds like you need to wake up to the nuances of social interactions and recognize that there are some situations where people will be too sensitive or triggered to hear your opinion. You may need to have more tact with that than you’d like, but you’ll get better results than if you just shut down and get mad.

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It’s a hard pill to swallow, right?

likefunny

What's your point? Do you want to combat racism with racism?

likefunny

Well I guess people on the internet really don’t read what other people are saying, but I’m gonna tell you straight my condensed summary of what I’m hearing: OP: I’ve just been put down in a way I think people should consider unjust and humiliating whatever your skin color. Guidehouse 1: you can’t have been, you’re white. You probably misunderstood. Director 1: White people are rich and privileged anyway, they are the cause of injustice, open your eyes! OP: er, I’m a minority where I come from and I’m more white-passing than white and I don’t even identify as white Director 1 and Guidehouse 1: was a white person talking? We don’t need to hear any more white voices cos there’s too many already

likesmartfunny

How is what you said above even the same as what you just said now? Oppressed isn’t a synonym for humiliating? It seems like you’re the only one who can’t read

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The response probably meant, that as a caucasian, your stereotypical experience makes your opinion unqualified. Your response can include why your opinion was valid, and the perceived background of a white person is different in your case.

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Ah I love the racist "you don't get it" response.

likefunny

So according to your own definition, it’s not racist to say for example “blacks shouldn’t have had opinions on voting, education, politics, etc. in early American history because they were uneducated and couldn’t read”. You see how bad that sounds? Just because someone isn’t as educated as someone else based on their current experiences doesn’t mean they should be discriminated against and not allowed to share their thoughts on a subject. No one has to like their opinion, but to purely not even listen to it because of skin color/race is racist.

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OP, you're spot on. Your skin color does not define who you are - even if Caucasian. Rise above the racism especially when others cannot.

likefunny

😂

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