Sick is seeing the sweeping statement ‘white men in the industry’ I’m white, male but gay and if anyone thinks my experience has been easy they are very wrong. The narrative needs to change.

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in most cases your queerness isn’t immediately visible. my blackness is. not saying that makes things easy, but that automatically gives you an advantage to pretty much any other minority. that makes assimilation for you much easier. no recruiter is gonna see your LinkedIn profile and unconsciously pass up on you. I see your title is Creative Lead. I’m sure you can easily name 10 creative leads you know that are white. how many can you name that are minorities? just the fact that you’ve made it that far shows that you have had it a lot easier than most other minorities. literally shut up

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@CL I’ll grow up when you acknowledge your privilege, which you seem unable to do. my guy what you have/have had more so than many others is opportunity and you being white has awarded you that. at worst you’re playing the game on medium difficulty. you have it so much better than the latinx kid getting confused for a janitor, or the black trans kid who no one will talk to at a networking event. you may be a minority within a majority, but at the end of the day you’re still in a majority. bro I’m sorry you can’t make 215k so you’re stuck at 175k. at least you can get to that point and being white and male has played a significant role in you being able to do so

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There is no single narrative about discrimination, marginalization and oppression. There are many. To confront POC or other historically marginalized or oppressed groups for discussing white men, which is part of their narrative, is misplaced frustration. White men who are gay, and discriminated against, can also be oppressors and benefit from privilege because they are white— even within their own LGBTQ+ community. Many still cover their identities — they shouldn’t have to, but it’s their choice, and they are just white guys in power. Does that mean your narrative shouldn’t be told, and your issues shouldn’t be addressed? Of course not. Does it mean we shouldn’t support you? Of course not. But your problem isn’t with us. It’s with your straight cis and closeted white brothers who have built the culture and system in their image to shore up their own success as they define it. And when it comes to being inclusive with our respective struggles, one thing I have observed in this industry is most gay white men don’t show up for POC, disabled, women or anyone but their own. There are a few exceptions...but to take some creative license, I don’t recall seeing Pride flags at #BLM marches and it’s only recently that masses of people are learning how the Stonewall narrative all but erased the Black and Brown trans women who sparked the uprising. Seriously my brother, I send only love. But we POC and other “minorities” in this bowl are not the problem here.

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The complexity you note was the point I was making. I empathize with everyone. But I repeat, we in this Minority bowl are not the best place to vent your frustration that you don’t feel LGBTQ+ needs are amplified enough. Your needs are not getting us on your side or to hear you and change. We are and we do. You need white men to hear you. It is impossible to address the issues of any historically marginalized group, including our gay brothers and sisters, without focusing on white males. That doesn’t mean all white men don’t have their challenges or stigmatized aspects of their identities to contend with. That doesn’t mean there’s no caring or empathy for you. But I stand by the premise that in this industry white men generally do not show up for non-white people. Gender identity/expression, sexual orientation, age, nationality, whatever intersectional identities you look at, they usually don’t show up.

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The industry is currently (still!) dominated by white men. That’s a fact and that statement doesn’t equal “YOUR experience as a gay man in the industry is easy”. It just means that you being male and white didn’t make it worse for you.
How is that sick? And how would you change the narrative specifically?

likesmarthelpful

I mean yes, dominated by straight white men is true and it lies in the nature of homophobia that this is the generalized assumption when talking about this.
I think I made it pretty clear that I don’t think gay men have it easier. I happen to be a lesbian. I know what you’re experiencing, although my experiences are more also shaped by the inherent sexism of the industry.

I’m just confused as to why you seem to rant against a minority in the industry trying to make people more aware of the imbalance instead of just lobbying for inclusion? Most people I’ve met that organize and care about this immediately include anti-homophobia and anti-racism work into their diversity work.

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OP, As a white gay/queer person I understand the feeling of your struggle seeming invisible and that is painful. I can understand not wanting to be lumped in with all the white men, especially since I would assume many of them have been awful. However like it or not when it comes down to race you don't get choice, and being white comes with a lot of privledge. POC just plain and simple do not get the same opportunities. If you want to change the narrative you have to take some time to really examine that and come to terms with your own complicity. The more you can actually talk about racism and really understand how it works institutionally the less comments about white men/white people will bother you. The more you can listen and understand why the way you framed your comment was hurtful to black folks. Asserting that white men need to be better understood and shouldn't be lumped together is a slap in the face to POC and one of the ways we as white people constantly gaslight people of color.

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you'll be just fine though.

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"Easy" is different than "easier." Isn't it that simple? White people have it easier. Men have it easier. Straight people have it easier. Cis people have it easier.

Not easy. Easier. It's relative to the experience they would have if they were not any or all of those things. It doesn't take away from anyone's struggle or accomplishment. Denying it, however, does.

likesmart

Yes, people are prejudiced against because of sexual orientation. But you get a lot of privilege for being a white male and you also have the choice to blend in. I’m 37 (not white) and I still get followed around in stores. Just like women are prejudiced against, white women generally have it easier than brown women. I think a lot of white women understand the double whammy being both. I also think some white women equate their struggles of being a women to being brown. I’m my opinion this just isn’t true in most instances. The best we can do as minorities is our best to understand each other and recognize the social dynamics that limit all of us. Or, like most people just worry about number one.

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Well as a gay black man, I can definitively say that gay white men in the industry (and in every other space) have specifically made my life harder in many ways.

I won’t discount your hardships, but you can’t discount your comparative level of privilege in spite of being gay.

My chief complaint about white gay men has always been the unbelievable lack of self awareness of how much privilege they still retain yet believe they are just as (or more) oppressed than other minorities. Meanwhile on dating apps I’m getting called “runaway slave” - and that’s when y’all are being nice

Unfortunately, all oppression is not equal.

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