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Chief
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Time to study, hard to find time to study when you’re working 60+ hours a week
Not a staff or senior but have some insight here. My team members/mentees often complain that they don’t have enough time to study. They will develop a studying schedule and then something will happen on their engagements that throws a wrench in the plan. They feel bad speaking up and asking for flexibility knowing that we are short staffed. So they don’t pass the exam because they didn’t have time to prepare. Had to take an active role in helping my staff pass the exam and even push back on the client deadline so we can provide enough time for studying. So, more flexibility and time to study is a big one!
Do you have a counselor or career coach that can assist you in getting some flexibility? When I was a staff I had a similar situation like you. Only had to take 2 parts while working but boy that was rough. I would start working at 7:30 so I can leave at 5:30 to study but that was rarely happening. Ended up taking most of my vacation just to study. That’s when I told myself I would never put my junior team members in that position. It’s a part of our job to help them pass this exam.
As someone without their cpa…I took those tests for 3 years straight (back when there were blackout windows of testing availability, so couldn’t fail and immediately retake) and failed every damn time with 73s or 74s. It got to the point that I had to repay for Becker myself ($5k) was already in for testing fees of $3k (4 tests, failed 3x each). I used firm resources of sabbaticals (20% cut in pay, which I ended up having to pick up a bartending gig to afford Becker payment plan and bills during that study time). Just couldn’t pass them and was tired of giving up my happiness and money. I had a very supportive mentor and managers who granted me pto to study, take exams etc, but sometimes it’s just not in the cards. After I told my mentor I was stopping attempts of getting it, within a month, people at work were telling me how much happier I seemed and how my attitude had improved so drastically. Sometimes it just not worth the mental or financial toll. It’s a moderately personal decision to stop attempting to pass them and it’s not taken lightly by that individual.
THISSSSS. totally was in the same boat. I realized probably my senior year of college that I truly did not enjoy accounting but I had already done two internships and accepted my full time offer, so I thought I’d stick it out. Tried taking the exams, including doing a sabbatical, but kept failing. It was taking a big toll on me and I did get a vibe that I was looked down upon by my coworkers for not having passed yet, which definitely did not help my mental state (more staff/senior side, not managers or partners). My job in general makes me miserable and I cant see myself in audit long term so I decided to not waste further time and money on a certification for an industry I don’t wanna be in. I already found a new job and accepted and offer. Don’t lose hope, anyone can get out of public!
They only cover the fees if you pass your first time LOL. that’s my struggle
Pro
CLA, I wasn't talking about general experiences and of course plenty people have legit struggles to getting the CPA and for some that may actually include the fees. But none of that is relevant to this. I'm countering KMPG's point that their roadblock to getting the CPA is the exam fee, which is a ridiculous excuse for an associate who works at KPMG. And the only reason I'm "sour" is cuz y'all telling me to check my privilege when I have none - and y'all the ones full of bullshit and excuses. I worked my ass off for where I am and dealt with incredible circumstances very few others ever will
Time. I know many m and sm without cpa still
@Manager 1 that stinks. Which firm are you at
I would assume those working at a big 4 without a CPA fall in to 2 categories: (1) can’t pass the test or (2) don’t plan on staying in the accounting industry for more than a few years.
3) not enough credits but no time to study
Chief
Back in the day I took 2 weeks of PTO and crammed for all 4 parts and passed 3 of them. Perhaps some of these people are overstudying? The goal is a 300 (75x4)!
ASA1, I did 6-8 weeks per test (6 for BEC, 8 for AUD, FAR, and REG). 4 hours a day after work, Mon-Thursday, and 6 hours on Saturdays. Rested Friday night and all day Sunday but had no social life during that time. It was awful. I failed REG, then immediately studied for 4 weeks using the same schedule, and passed. It was pure dedication.
I know it's changing know but it is always going to be a time suck
As an international student, no one helped me go through the international evaluation credits with NASBA and it took me a year and half to get my results back as I was learning about the process by myself. Once I became eligible, I was already senior and had to pay for my exams fees etc and now I have to study and work 50-60hr a week. Ideal.
Time and a lot of staff don’t know how to put boundaries between work and their CPA study schedule or manage the time during the day.
Time - it's not impossible but very hard to find the time to study when you are constantly on demanding engagements or even busy seasos back to back (I had 4 on a row) - the long hours, while trying your best to learn (some times with very minimum support - it does really have a ripple effect when M/SMs don't take the time to coach you) , manage your staff and interns... or essentially your team as it Involves managers too and sometimes SMs.
Again is not impossible but it takes more effort after being some drained... in my personal experience.
I finished mine in my first year and the number one reason I got it done was sacrifice. I think it also helped that we were working from home and I could easily switch from work to study. But the number one way to help is time. Additionally, communicating the importance of getting it done 1-2 years in. After that, the likelihood of getting it while at the same firm drops significantly I’d imagine.
I agree with you on the emphasizing getting it done in 1-2 years of working, but i’d take that a step further and say to back the words up with action-ive had so many directors/partners say that to staff but they do not care to make sure we are all enabled to pass. Im talking managers without boundaries who will set up after hours meetings (cutting into study time) and weeks that were supposed to be 40 hours that turn into 50. Really ruins all study plans when your team walks all over your time, and youre a new associate with little authority.
I totally understand the need for time to study. Unfortunately it's the element I can control the least.
I find it interesting that time is basically the only factor that seems to be an issue for 9/10 people here. It's not a benefits or incentive item but just time to do it.
Curious what you all feel is the maximum you would want to be working while studying to make passing in 1 year truly feasible or less daunting? 40hrs/week? 45hrs, 50hrs, 55hrs.../week? Assume I have enough work for you to never stop working ever 😂
40 hours/week and a half day or day before exam is what has helped me pass 2 so far. Had to take a break during busy season. But WFH has helped a lot to get more time back
I agree with time to study
I think it’s time to study. For the ones that have trouble we try to plan time that is away from work and they can 100% study. If there is engagements that will pull from their study they are to push it up to their mgr/coach so that it can be shifted around to others or planned around their study time. I see SM1 saying engagements come in the way and if you let it there will ALWAYS be work.
Another minute thing is the drive to want to be certified and not what others want/peer pressure. I passed all 4 parts my first year in public accounting. I was a January hire.
Because people are lazy. No excuses.
Unless they are working 60+ hours 365 days, its all excuses.
What can the firm do?
You could offer 10k bonus and there still will be people not taking single one of them
Doing it full time depends what group you are in. We do 70-90 hrs from September to mid December then 50-60 from February to June with a few 40hr weeks in there. Basically just have july and august where it’s 40 hr work week to try and cram them in. But if you fail then you wasted any down time and now you’re back in busy season. Never get to enjoy your life and you do the same the next year then start to lose credits for ones passed
Chief
I think the bigger incentive is how stuck your career with be without one
Usually audit people who don’t pass end up being career senior accountants or pivot into recruiting
Yeah of course, we can agree on that.
I think some people just don’t have what it takes to pass and are lazy. They should not promote to senior til they pass. I’ve seen people get promoted just because they are in second year out of school
We have a no promo to mgr if you aren’t certified. Agree I would be down many seniors if that was the rule.
Back in the day when I was in Deloitte the hiring partner would hire graduates who just finished masters in tax and passed the CPA before joining as staff. They never promoted to senior without a CPA. Kids today feel entitled. No excuse if you get unlimited PTO and have time to party!
Chief
*waste time on social media*
Lol no time to study
OP are you doing some sort of a survey here or do you have a staff/senior that can’t seem to pass the exam?
There needs to be some consideration on staffing jobs when new hires come in. When I was recruited, I was told I would have 4 months of very light work, where I would have free time to study during work hours. Then I start and I was immediately staffed on a job where I was working 55-60 hours. While I was working heavy hours, there were other new associates sitting at the office with nothing to do because they already had their CPA when they started.
My utilization at my first year review was 212%. Some of those people that came in with their CPA barely made their utilization goals their first year.
It took me 5 years, but I ultimately passed. Here is what it took for me.
- I purchased a different study software out of my own pocket. It is unrealistic for firms to assume that Becker is going to work for everyone.
- About 2 years in I decided I needed dedicated study time where I took a week off of work before each exam to focus only on studying (my brain was not as sharp trying to study after even an 8 hour workday)
- I had a change in leadership that made it possible for me to take the week off before and actually be off and not feel like work was just piling up for when I got back.
Something else that you should know if you truly care:
Realize that everyone’s situation is different and you never know what is going on at home if you don’t ask. I started after working for 5 years in industry. I worked full time while getting my masters the last 2 years. I came into the firm engaged, planning a wedding, my finance had just started a new job where he was traveling so we only saw each other on the weekends. It just was not a great time to focus on studying. I just thing having one on ones with people who are not testing or can’t pass is a better approach, because everyone is going to have a different reason or obstacle.
Also, being understanding and not judgmental helps. Early on, I had a manager, who gave me a day off before my exam, rip into me for not passing. Told me he couldn’t understand how I could not pass… he acted like one day off before was a HUGE deal. I had to tell him that I found out on that day off that my Grandfather passed away that morning, so I spent all day with my mom. It took everything I had to not burst into tears. I realize that this was very situational, but it definitely did not encourage me to keep trying. What if I hadn’t passed and didn’t have a good reason. It would have been better if he had asked me what I think went wrong. If I was just not prepared enough, or if there was other factors, and then if any of those other factors are something he could help with, he should guidance.