The main partner I work for is constantly trying to set “legal traps” to see if I fall into them. For example, he ask me a specific legal question (to which he already knows the answer) to see if I am able to deliver. I’m so nervous now (this has been going on for over a year) that I often end up falling into his trap by doing (stupid) mistakes. What do you advise me to do? My self confidence is slowly getting destroyed. This does not happen with other partners.
A partner did this to me. He would on purpose leave a typo in a 200+ page document to see if I caught it and then say he was testing my attention to detail. Luckily it is a large firm and I now completely avoid him, and have turned down several projects he’s asked for me on. I know it’s bad practice to turn down work as a junior but I refuse to be manipulated like that.
How do you know that he did it on purpose instead of just saying that he did when you caught his mistake
Not saying this is the case for OP, but for some alternate perspective, my mentor did this to me sometimes, like Socratic questioning about “but WHY are we doing it this way” or “are you sure that’s what that provision means? Try again” and he’d make me keep guessing until I got it right or gave up. Sometimes I wasn’t in the mood or we didn’t have time for it and it was irritating, but overall made me a much better lawyer. But we also generally had a great relationship and got along well, and I knew/believe he wasn’t doing it to trip me up but rather because he respected my analytical thinking and wanted to improve my analytical thinking. Especially if you’re a woman or minority (I’m both and my mentor is black) you have to be better than everyone else. But I have heard other associates who worked with the same partner interpreted it as “oh he just wants to trip you up, he loves feeling smarter than you and takes glee in it”. 🤷🏽♀️
Everyone has different working styles. Try and approach it as a learning experience but if it’s making you miserable, maybe time to get out from under this partner, at your firm or elsewhere.
Sorry, I meant it as a question towards OP. If the partner is celebratory when you get it right, then s/he is likely trying to train you up.
Weird I was looking up toxic behavior in the dictionary the other day and found this exact definition!
@op: Something that helped me is to remember that not knowing is the step before knowing. You are learning and if you are making different mistakes than before, you are improving.
Pro
This is messed up. Like all lawyers, we have the option to say “let me look into this and get back to you.” So being on the spot and testing you accomplishes nothing.
Maybe, MAYBE, you can find a way to jokingly call him on this by just asking “is this an actual question you have or is this a test?” Maybe by pointing out what it is, he’ll realize he’s not as stealthy as he thinks he is and it’s very obvious he’s doing these “tests.” Either way, you can respond with “that’s a good question, I’d like to look into it and confirm my answer before I respond if that is ok.” If he says no - ask why?
As we all learned in law school, never ask "Why?" if you don't already know the answer.
Rising Star
Run
Rising Star
What high school are you in?
Counsel 1, Be nice.
Devil’s advocate here, though maybe I’m old school. You might want to look at these exercises as training rather than traps. I had a partner who did this to me my first year and I wound up knowing the RCP for both jurisdictions and all court levels I practiced in, inside and out. When a judge is making split minute decisions, knowing the job like it’s putting milk on cereal can be the difference between a favorable decision or a lambasting from the bench.
But*
I am a seventh year litigation associate. I have had a variety of different bosses and learned a lot about how I learn most effectively.
A person can be a brilliant lawyer and a terrible teacher/manager simultaneously. Last week, I was doing an assignment in a subject matter area that was totally foreign (to me and to the firm; there were no templates) in a foreign jurisdiction. I reviewed fifty emails, the docket, and all available forms. I took full ownership and sent my boss a final package of materials I asked him to bless before filing.
He responded by attaching an email where I missed a half line of instruction and lambasting me like we were adversaries in a discovery dispute. I responded in kind. The following week we discussed and he continued to lay blame squarely at my feet, shaming me during the conversation.
A lot of litigators would say—buck up buttercup; that’s how it is.
This litigator says—all of that unnecessary shame cultivated nothing but fear, insecurity and adversarial communication. It’s not collaborative or instructive; it’s the opposite. And, most importantly, it does nothing to better serve our clients.
In no way was this a productive learning experience. The problem could have been solved with a two line email/two minute call—but this was how he handled it.
I shine in court under pressure. I am trusted to handle adversaries and difficult judges. But my confidence in doing so does not come from being torn down; it comes from being valued/respected by colleagues and feeling proud to be part of a team.
You can cultivate loyalty based on love, not fear. The others are corrosive and toxic.
Rising Star
Sounds like you work for a real gem. The law doesn’t attract sane, socially adjusted people.
This sounds crazy. In an ideal world, partners help you learn and grow, and this usually means not getting too peeved when a newer lawyer makes reasonable mistakes. Trying to incite mistakes is... crazy. It saves everyone time and stress for them to just tell you the rule. If you keep making the same mistakes though, that’s on you.
Most new lawyers already have imposter syndrome. I’m not sure it does you any favors to have your confidence undermined internally. The practice of law will do this itself, lol.
Omg I thought I was the only one this happened to!!! It’s an every day occurrence with one of the partners in my office as well. It’s to the point where I get anxiety every time he calls or sends an email. My stress level is through the roof
I’m so sorry. You’re definitely not alone. 😥If you are able to, try avoiding working with him and if you are also stuck with that partner (like I am) look for ways out.
Tbh the thought that people are doing this to me has always been my biggest fear and so thnx for confirming this does indeed happen in real life 🥴
That’s really pretty crappy.
I’m not defending this at all, but I’ll say this: once you fall into the trap one time too often, it will be hard to ever make it stop as the partner will lack confidence based on your past failures and will want to test you again to see if he or she can be confident in giving you work.
It’s more them than you - you MAYBE do that kind of thing to a summer or a first year during their first month to see what you have. But doing it continuously is just a recipe for failure. His or her real choice should be whether or not to give you work anymore.
I guess the fact that they are may at least be an indicator that they trust you despite their nonsense. So try to take solace in that while you figure a way out of this.
Toxic is the right word. If I engaged in this kind of behavior I’m confident our younger lawyers would quit.
We represent criminal defendants and civil plaintiffs. We attract great talent from top law schools but we don’t pay enough that young lawyers will just roll with the punches. And I’m sure if asked our younger lawyers could identify other shortcomings of mine.
Going out on a limb here ... a partner asks you to engage in legal analysis for whatever reason (if he KNOWS the answer it must be pretty clear otherwise I call this a discussion). Either way you engage in such analysis, but admittedly make “stupid mistakes.” And apparently there’s something wrong with the partner? My advice is to try to stop making “stupid mistakes.” Those generally don’t go well in our line of work.
I think you missed the point. Don’t rely on anyone to catch your mistakes. It was a valuable training exercise, confidence builder and a lesson in attention to detail. I assume the partner was not have done that if my work had not been reliable before. I guess it was just a different time. I understood the lesson at the time. I guess that approach would not have worked with you.
Chief
I hate this so much. I have a co worker who does the same to me. ( She's Senior) I always keep my analytical mind on me and act first like they're wrong. Then slice for the right anwser.
Rising Star
Query fir the thread? Is this mostly a litigation thing? Because I have never heard of this in corporate.
SR1: thank you for the validation. Do you have thoughts on how you’d handle this type of behavior in-house?
I could be wrong but my impression from the OP is that the “this doesn’t happen with others” means both the “traps” and the corresponding “stupid mistakes” — and hence I think what they mean is that the dynamics have become such that, with this particular person, they psyche themselves out or become so immobilized by panic/fear of doing the wrong thing that in face that is precisely what happens. The slow eroding of confidence is something that can happen, and it is good if so far it only happens with this one partner and not with their work more generally. It seems like the question is how to extricate from this cycle and reset the relationship. Depending upon the circumstances and size of the firm, I don’t know if it is possible to try to get away from assignments with this particular partner and load up on work with others, take a vacation and try to mentally reset the attitude/mentality towards this person. I have practiced for many years and have definitely seen how certain people and work styles can really serve to undermine others’ confidence and success even while other styles serve to support and nurture people along. This is not to excuse mistakes or say that constructive criticism isn’t warranted — but it should be constructive, not mean or oriented towards to set someone up for failure. There are undoubtedly some who are very good at mentoring someone along and others who are truly counterproductive to that.
There is a term for this type of behavior, it’s cclassic “gaslighting”. Quicker you recognize and protect youself from its implications, better you would be.
Rising Star
Terrible person to work for. But every time they threw a legal trap at you I’d write down the trap and try to learn it as best as I could. It makes you a better attorney in the long run, and if you ever come against this person you can always use their own traps against them.
I’ve had similar experience. For me it’s less of “legal traps” and more of just straight up quizzing and testing me every time I get on the phone with him. I understand he wants to assess my knowledge, but I feel constantly on edge like I’m back in law school being cold called.
That being said, I have no particular advice to give but I think the above comments are helpful and insightful and it’s comforting to know others are experiencing the same thing.
Sounds like you work at a toxic waste factory. Get out of there
Just quit. No questions asked, get out. You’ll find a job and you’ll be un better spirits to get it once you have the end of the tunnel in sight.