The product org at my company (500 FTE startup) has begun working on expanding our product roles. There’s been a lot of discussion around the “Group PM” - for those who have this role or have been in this role: where does it usually fit in (what are the other tiles up/down) and do you think this role/title/level is beneficial & why?

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The title itself doesn't matter too much as each company defines roles and titles a little bit differently. I read a Group PM as someone who leads multiple product teams and typically has a team of 2 to 5 PMs. If your organization is large enough to support that role, I'd say it's a good idea to have the management support there

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Group PM as I’ve seen it will manage a team of PMs but also be directly responsible for a product as well.

This is a leadership path for PM.

Under them you may have PM, Senior PM, or Principle PM

I’m not 100% certain where a Senior Director PM falls into this category, I haven’t seen orgs have sr dir and group PM roles.

VP/Head of product will sit above the group PM role and then CPO above them (depending on size/maturity of org)

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If the org is big enough.. you will have Group PMs (effectively Managers of Product) and Directors. Just look at Google’s levelling (Group PM). Or Meta’s (M1 / M2). Or Amazon’s (Manager of Product / Sr Manager of Product)

So generally I like to think about this as adding leadership layers as product orgs scale out to ensure reporting lines stay reasonable. Each layer of leadership encapsulates ownership of a product area. And because those product areas become more and more complex with scale the more those roles need to be leading other PMs with more granular ownership.

At the very beginning.. there might be just 1 VP Product and a small 2-5 IC product manager product org.

As the org grows out.. that VP Product may then hire 2-5 Directors of Product each overseeing 2-5 IC Product Managers.

As the org grows even more.. those Directors of Product will then start hiring Group Product Managers (or Managers of Product) who will oversee 2-5 IC Product Managers.

The best thing about Group PM roles are that because you’re on the ground.. you typically also act as an IC for part of your role. Could be 50:50, 60:40, 70:30 etc but Group PMs will usually have IC work.

So on and so forth… until.. a fully maxed out Product org will have:

IC PMs:

- Associate Product Manager

- Product Manager

- Senior Product Manager

- Staff / Lead Product Manager

- Senior Staff / Lead Product Manager

- Principal Product Manager

- Distinguished Product Manager

Product Leaders:

- Group Product Manager (aka: Manager of Product)

- Senior Group Product Manager (aka: Senior Manager of Product)

- Director of Product

- Senior Director of Product

- VP Product

- Senior or Executive VP of Product

The split between IC and Leadership happens above Sr PM. Higher level ICs tend to report into higher level leaders.

The largest product companies have multiple Product orgs focusing on different areas of the product portfolio each led ultimately by a Sr Director, VP or SVP. Some companies may roll everyone up into a CPO others choose direct reporting to a CEO.

FWIW, the titles don’t really matter. But correct levelling of certain IC and management roles DO matter. So make sure when you’re coming up with a new org design that it fits your companies needs. At Meta, e.g. there aren’t even any title markers for high level PMs. Generally, Product titles get a bit weird after Sr PM and up to Director. Lots of variability.

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Usually in organizations where titles and hierarchy matter, hiring managers use these titles to recruit candidates without upsetting the next level.

Eg hire a Sr PM as a Group PM but place them under a Director.

The ideal way to set up a product org is to look at your orgs requirements and figure out the hierarchy first, and then attach titles to the hierarchy. Don’t start with the titles.

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