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There is a teacher shortage in the country. Do you think teachers need to get paid more for everything they have to deal with?

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Yes. Even in the DC area where my wife teaches elementary school, which is one of the higher paying regions in the US, she's criminally underpaid for how much time and effort she puts in. Almost 20 years in, she's at the best school of the 5 she's taught at so far and she's still putting in 60+ hours on average, as well as working at least 3-4 hours per day over the breaks during the school year and a couple weeks worth of unpaid work over the short summer break. Last week she clocked in at 76 hours, all for a salary of ~$90k at 18.5 years, and that's way more than she'd be paid in most other places in the US. The big blocker to increasing *teacher* pay is that the number of admin at school has exploded over the years and hoovers up an ever increasing portion of the budget. At her current school, there is a 1:3 admin:teacher ratio, and admin has a higher pay scale than the teachers.

likesmart

They definitely should be paid higher, but I also think the bar to entry should also be higher? Maybe make becoming a teacher... harder? A bunch of my friends randomly decided to become high school teachers after we graduated college which took them like a year (idk the process but it seemed pretty quick and easy), then after maybe a year or two of teaching they got bored and decided to do something else. It was almost like a "I don't know what to do with my life so I guess I'll become a teacher" phase for them. It sort of feels like anyone could become a teacher, which is probably partly why the pay sucks and why there are so many terrible teachers. I mean look at "Teach for America". All you need is a bachelor's degree, a 2.5 GPA, and after you go through a mere summer of training they send you to go teach high school somewhere! Make it harder to become a teacher so we only have the brightest, most dedicated teachers, and make the pay waaaaay higher to attract said brightest and dedicated.

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Yea was going to say…TFA is quite competitive (less than 15% acceptance rate) and at least historically, Goldman which funds part of it was known to recruit from it. They send kids right out of college into inner city districts with limited support or resources. By your own story, the folks who go into teaching who can’t cut it don’t stay. But also not sure where you’re from…in nyc most teachers have masters degrees or are in process of getting them. The reason it feels like anyone can become one is a feature of a system that doesn’t reward well enough, not the other way around. I know an awful lot of people who went into media because they couldn’t think of much else…does that mean they deserve to live under the poverty line like many teachers in the country? What this really comes down to is whether people in the county respect education (especially of other peoples kids) and generally value living in an educated society. They don’t, and so teacher comps aren’t prioritized in municipal budgets.

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Without a doubt

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It pays well already. No, they should not be paid more. They have excellent work life balance and they get very good healthcare and a good pension.

funnylike

You obviously don't know any teachers in real life. My income is not controlled by market supplying demand but by voters that live in my community and decide whether they're going to increase taxes to enable us to fund salary increases. I receive no pension through my school dayet through my school district and I will not be able to collect social security for teaching either. I guarantee you that you're retirement retirement will be far better than mine. Although my work hours are defined by our contract, I work many, many more hours then what is put on paper. I am also not compensated for those many extra hours. I work evenings, weekends, and throughout that summer that you envy so much. I am also pursuing my master's degree during this summer at my own expense with no help from my district. Beyond that, I typically spend thousands of dollars out of my own pocket every year providing materials and curricula for my students as well as paying for required professional development. You live in a fantasy land if you think that we are very well paid with excellent retirement plans and work hours.

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I always love saying, "Then you do it" to people who complain about the cushy lives teachers supposedly have with their "bloated" salaries. They seem to shut up pretty quickly after that. And their salaries are reflected in work experience and all the additional training/education they have to take, you point that out and they also shut up. Seriously, people are so stupid. You worked your profession for 15 years, you think you should deserve the same salary from when you first graduated either high school, trade school, or college?! Critical thinking skills in this country are abysmal.

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Lol SM1 is such a joke.

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I find it amazing that a job with so much social impact is paid so little

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BIG YES, my mom is a teacher.. I can’t imagine dealing with middle schoolers every week day. The things she does for those kids… so inspirational yet so draining

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My dad taught middle school for years. We used to joke it was because he was as crazy as they were! 😆 It really does take a special energy to deal with kids that age day-and-out for years and years.

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Increased pay would be the right thing to do but it won't really solve the shortage. A significant part of this issue is the politicization of education, the demonization of teachers, and the aggressive entitlement of parents. It's also an issue that is specifically acute in specific subject areas such as STEM fields and in special ed. The combination of baby boomer retirement and the decline in the esteem teachers were afforded has created a major problem.

likesmart

It’s an insult what teachers are paid for the amount of work they do. Plus, they don’t get cushy offices and / or remote work. They mostly get crappy facilities with students who don’t want to be there, and are lucky to get bathroom breaks. In nyc, the top of the pay scale after 20 years gets you about $120k. For my wife who is 30, with a masters and endless certs she gets $80k and is frequently derided for being expensive. She also often is forced to pay out of pocket for classroom expenses. Nyc is considered high paying because teachers aren’t below the poverty line. But come on…

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Here in WI the max I’ve ever heard for a teacher with their masters degree and certifications is $80K. This is with 20-25 years of experience too. After that they really try to get you out of the system because they don’t want to pay you more.

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I think the better question is why all teachers act like they’re the most important people on the planet and deserve more pay when they get 4 months off a year plus all federal holidays. I realize it’s not easy to deal with kids of all ages and the politics associated but every literal job has different struggles and they knew these struggles going in.

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😂 you might comprehend better if you took your teachers more seriously growing up. Maybe they were important after all… And if playing your argument back to you seems simplistic…then i guess we’re making progress. You’ll get there eventually!

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YES. Teachers should be paid more than all of us, on the level of doctors tbh. We wouldn’t be here without them.

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Absolutely. My dad was a teacher and I’ve always thought they should be paid more. They work so much more than the school hours people think they work.

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Yes. My teachers should have had a bonus for dealing with me. And compared to today…I was pretty good.

likefunny

For a rich country, US has pretty terrible educational outcomes.

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A lot of great teachers, but a lot of trash ones too. Not to mention the ever growing increase in inappropriate student-teacher relationships. Not sure we should just give raises to everyone lol

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^ I’m honestly confused here. Was this supposed to be a shot at me or something? Lol or are you trying to compare my industry/employer to my comment on sexual predators in schools?

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I personally foresee a scenario in the near future where most teachers would have to be recruited from abroad on working visas.

likefunny

100% yes

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Pay more only if they produce results.

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Was going to ask if kpmg is saying teachers should just teach to standardized tests and get paid based on scores (proven to be a terrible system for many reasons) but he already lost all credibility with the covid and masks tangent.

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Some of you have never known a teacher in your life and it shows.

likeuplifting

Or they’ve known maybe one that they dislike and are basing their whole argument off that…

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Honestly they need better support in general. Yes, salaries are good, but tools, curriculum, resources. Backup with discipline. I have some teacher friends, and none of them got into it for the money. It’s when you try your best and you see kids do poorly anyway, that’s when they contemplate quitting. You need parents encouraging them to do their homework. You need administrators who will enforce rules. You need funding so you don’t have to buy school supplies for your kids. You need school programs so the kids have things to do besides drugs and fight. You need counselors to help kids with special needs (not just learning disabilities, a kid with parents who fight will have behavior issues)

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