Pro
Related Posts
What side project are you currently working on?
Oscar Meyer or Alcott school?
What’s everyone’s life utilization %?
Additional Posts in Desi Consultants
Conversation Starter
Conversation Starter
Enjoy bhaiyo and kisi aur ki beheno...
Conversation Starter
Chief
New to Fishbowl?
Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Pro
Are you a farmer? What gives you the right to judge what’s best for them! You can have an opinion - but to make changes that affects their lives needs to be done with their consent. That’s whole point of a democracy.
D1, DC1 what parts of the bill do you specifically disagree with? Agree there needs to be a dialogue but OPs original post was more about how reforms are needed, which is necessary now, more than ever.
Anyone else notice that one of the demands that the farmers have is to remove the penalty for hiring crops. That's the number 1 reason for pollution in Delhi and yet despite provide alternatives, it's easier to just burn the crops and not be held liable for it.
Pro
😂 Number one reason? Delhi is polluted whole year.. that is seasonal 15 day phenomenon
Pro
Meanwhile millions of farmers in the rest of the country are being crushed by middle men under an opaque and morally repugnant agricultural marketplace where they are exploited to the hilt by middlemen. High value fruits and vegetables constantly are subject to abnormal highs and lows in prices either causing high inflation to consumers or near zero prices causing farmers to destroy the produce because it is economically unviable for them to even transport it to the market.
I’m sure there is a lot more nuance to this issue and that there is an argument to be made to keep the current system in place but I’m yet to see any rationale that makes a compelling argument. It’s mostly been “Selling the country to Ambani-Adani” or this is an anti-farmer administration or a lazy variant of this that is more driven by reflexive antipathy towards the political leadership than any clear eyed analysis.
And reforms are almost never popular. Because the losers will always make their voices heard but the gainers will be the voiceless majority who benefit in the long term. Manmohan Singh is viewed today as a great reformist but he and his then boss Narasimha Rao were universally reviled by their party for abandoning the country’s socialist principles (different story they had no option and had zero political capital - unlike the case today where the ruling party know they will never come anywhere close to getting power in Punjab for a generation to come)
Pro
There was no"loser" opposing both those laws
Conversation Starter
Agriculture & farming in India is in real trouble. We lack stronger reforms & innovation. There is immense potential for innovation and growth in agricultural sector beyond any other sector. Any minor reform is ridiculed with deep politics. God save India.
I don’t know if this law will benefit Farmers or it won’t. I can’t comment but a major reform is indeed needed in this sector. There has to be a middle ground between protecting farmers interests and bringing innovation and reducing waste. It can’t entirely be a playing field for private corporations as that can be devastating for economy & inflation as well as farmers.
I am not a supporter of any political party. I talk this as a person whose last few generations earned living by farming including my parents.
Pro
I am from a farmer family and not a farmer who were farmers generations ago. I have seen struggle first hand and nothing in this law is spelling out anything which is going to be "revolutionary" reform.
Farmers have been asking for implementation of swaminathan report for years now and government pays no heed to that. But yeah if it's about making farming "corporate" accessible which will make them effective.
Our sugarcane payments are pending from months on so called "contract" before you sow.
Enthusiast
Farming in India has always been in trouble, just like rest of the world. There have been pockets where farmers have been comparatively better than the rest.
Sensible person would try to replicate a model which works in some place to other places. Or try a new model where current one is not working.
An idiot (or a corrupt) person will try to dismantle the system which is working and replace it with a system which hasn't worked anywhere else yet.
Enthusiast
OP, who is talking about doing nothing? I literally told you 2 ways things can be improved in my previous comment.
Replicate strategy that works in one area to the other ones or try new strategies where existing one is not working.
Copying strategy that hasn't worked to an area where current state is relatively good is the dumbest thing.
Pro
Thanks for sharing the video - very helpful. But I don’t think anyone is challenging farmers lived experience - most people are aware of how difficult their lives are. It’s about making sustainable change at a scale will shift the status quo benefiting the majority in the long run.
I agree there will need to be safeguards built in and implemented to protect farmers from exploitation by corporates in future. However we also need to protect farmers who are being crushed by middlemen right now and we shouldn’t be paralyzed or afraid of a future risk. It’s like someone being stuck in an abusive home and deciding to stay there because they’re afraid they may get hit by a car on the street if they decide to walk out.
As far as GST is concerned, perhaps you have a better knowledge of state taxation and trade than I do, but to me having a system with 5 or so slabs (imperfect as they may be) is superior to one with each state having their system resulting in a Byzantine system that was an insitutional bottleneck to trade.
Pro
Why does everything need reform? Is something massively broken with farming. You seem to be sharing opinions devoid of data.
Conversation Starter
It indeed needs a reform. But what sort is another question. I say this as a person whose generations of families earned living by farming. Some of my takes
1. Farmers need more and more access to direct consumers & markets. Middle & red tape needs to go away. It can still be strictly overseen by government by not engaging the government in every step of the process. This to ensure fair prices for produce & at the same time preventing slow as a moth process from govt
2. India needs to adapt to more innovative & sustainable methods of farming. Todays farming practises are irresponsible & as if there is no next generation. They deplete enormous amount of natural resources. It’s hard for government to bring this innovation without the help of private partnership due to enormous size of india.
3. Profitable farming - this comes from using more innovation to increase crop yield & modern tools to reduce costs. There is immense potential and farmers can make money only by innovation, using resources wisely, & following sustainable practises.
4. Reduce waste of agricultural produce - this is a big problem. A lot of produce is wasted while so much of the india population is living below poverty line and starving. We need better supply chains as well as new tech to increase the shelf life of farm produce.
Enthusiast
If the 2 states are growing rice and wheat, other crop farmers in other states must be having time of their life
Enthusiast
How will that stop with new laws? Wouldn't you need some kind of mechanism to set a floor on price to recover at least the production cost?
Something similar to MRP but on minimum side
Pro
Instead of saying I am yet to see argument. You should see point by point arguments presented by farmer unions. There is a fairly clear communication available. This is just one example.
https://youtu.be/bSmwLboZ6JE
You should also know failures of contract farming already faced day to day by farmers. Sugarcane Mills and then PepsiCo contract farming in punjab are lived examples and not manufactured facts.
You should also look at idea that despite no restrictions on other crops not a single crop is sold at suggested price.
Right to address any dispute ending at SDM is travesty of justice system.
Calling for reforms as answer to everything is easier said than done when lives of 70% people depend on a sectors. They are asking for protections to prevent corporate to bully them to their will.
When there is a precedent of destructive policy measures taken by a government in name of reforms then it's hard to trust same government to execute anything. Deregulation of fuel was all hailed as move to link consumer market with oil prices and now government is filling it's coffers by keeping prices high. GST was a extraordinary reform projected and now states are fighting in supreme court like beggers for their share of revenue. These are just few examples.
So climb down from that high horse and look at the lived experiences which people face each day.
There is no farmer union.. this union is made up of Punjab farmers.. farmers of whole country are not supporting this.