{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Those of you who never want to return to the office. If your wish is granted, do you expect to be promoted at the same rate your peers who are in the office training staff, dealing with clients, and rubbing shoulders with management are? Just curious", "post_id": "610bf8cdbd4650001b7891e7", "reply_count": 72, "vote_count": 13, "bowl_id": "564a5cdb94887803001dd07c", "bowl_name": "Accounting" }

Those of you who never want to return to the office. If your wish is granted, do you expect to be promoted at the same rate your peers who are in the office training staff, dealing with clients, and rubbing shoulders with management are? Just curious

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This thread made me lol 😅 it’s 2021 and some people still think we can’t develop staff or deal with clients because we’re not in the office. Nothing fully replaces face-to-face interaction, but to act like it’s a mandatory requirement that we all need on a daily basis in our careers to be successful is just laughable at this point.

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The biggest issue with fully remote is that it’s not the most effective for new, inexperienced hires. That I will agree with 100%. However, part of the reason for this gets to one my biggest qualms with public accounting: People get promoted for being good at their own jobs, but at a certain level they now have an expectation to train and develop others yet have absolutely no idea how to do so (and a lot don’t care enough to even try). The concept of managers not being able/willing to train/develop staff is mind-boggling to me, and that leads to staff/seniors feeling like they need to fend for themselves because they have trash managers (in the area of training and development at least). Trust me when I say that when you are intentional about doing everything you can to help your staff, it alleviates much of that developmental gap from not being in the office. Of course the staff have to do their part too by putting in the effort because it’s a two-way street. But they can absolutely be developed remotely if you have the right kind of people on your team. If the newbies are fending for themselves, why aren’t the people responsible for helping them actually helping them? Is it because no one is being persistent enough and pushing them to do it? If they say they’re too busy then they need to work on their time management skills, or the team needs to find a way to reduce their workload because they’re just going to burn out. Everyone in PA is busy as hell all the time; have to learn how to say no and how to prioritize, and you should always have an expectation that you’re going to need to help staff out at some point during the day. TLDR: If you’re intentional about developing your staff and it’s engrained in your team’s culture, then where the staff are located doesn’t mean a damn thing for this point in their careers. Oh and the pandemic showed me that I need to think outside the box and learn how to develop relationships virtually because I’m not letting a location get in the way of that for what I want to do in my career. To each’s own on that last point.

I’m probably not the norm but I think new staff, less experienced seniors and those on projects with them in a review capacity should be in a common place to work at least 2-3 days a week. People need to learn in person and meet their peers especially that young in your career. It’s less about monitoring them as it is giving them real-time feedback and making them feel like part of a team.

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Agree. The seniors I work with are awful (they are smart) but they are never available for help and couldn’t be bothered. They will not answer questions timely and won’t even go on teams or zoom to help teach. It’s been very hard on me.

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Yes because I will be at home training staff and dealing with client, boomer.

likefunnysmart

The boomer comment is getting so old. No pun intended

likefunny

We still train staff, deal with clients, and work to communicate with management. Why wouldn't promotion schedules stay the same? For those working remotely prior to COVID, assuming a full work schedule, promotions still took place on pace with those in the office.

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I’ve been WFH for three years, have led trainings, meetings, happy hours, and have promoted just like everyone else. The whole firm going WFH only proved what the rest of us already knew, we can be just as effective (actually more effective) at home.

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The only one of those that applies to wfh is rubbing shoulders with management. That should not be a criteria for advancement anyway.

likesmart

It definitely could potentially hurt, but not necessarily. Many people are just as effective over the computer and some are better in person. Those people may want to be face to face sometimes and not fully remote but it really is dependent on that individual, their teams and clients. My initial comment was directed at OP who indicated that Wfh was a negative on your career. Could be for some but many would be fine remote

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Side note but I love when people ask these questions thinking it’ll be a “gotcha!” Just makes me wonder….have you not still been doing these things while everyone has been remote for 18 months? Are you telling on yourself just a teeny bit here

likesmart

I see way more people for WFH than against it

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I think the people who want a return to office are older and higher ranking folks who feel like their power is diminished since their office isn't what it used to look like. It's much harder to control your corporate fiefdom over a computer screen.

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I think that is a generalization. I agree many older people want it go in because they are probably more comfortable with it. I know many younger people that want to go in also because the miss being around co workers and hate sitting at home by themselves. No one reason for or against going to the office

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Yes. I’m on a national team and no one I work with sits in my office so there is no point for me to go in.

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Same. I used to go in the office, but the partner and associates I work with are in another office anyway. Nothing will change for me if I go back in office. I’ll still need to be on video chats often.

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I’m old fashioned so some face to face is necessary. There is no one size fits all… Some questions that come to mind that I’m interested in understanding: How do your rub shoulders with management in WFH? Do people think a virtual Happy Hour is as good (better or worse) than in person?

likefunny

Agree with M1. I am a single male with almost no friends here so I happy hours with my team, who are awesome people. I wish I could get closer to them.

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WFH hasn't changed my work ethics. I still train, work late, do all my work and others. In the end its my name that will be mentioned and I have proven that I do deserve that promotion!

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As an old person, Hybrid works great. Everyone should be flexible to the situation(client-person-firm). Some face to face is always good in office or client.

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I think that people at home can work harder and dedicate more hours just because they do not need to spend 1 -2 hours to travel to work. I thought this pandemic proved that you do not need to be in the office to work hard.

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I think management is probably going to look at your overall performance, feedback from staff on your coaching skills, comments from your managers, etc. Highly doubt anyone is going to promote you faster just for being in the office.

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The requirements of a role are unchanged. The idea that this is a relationship business where trust is key is unchanged. If you agree with those statements then you would likely agree that people are going to be more effective when they include face to face interactions vs remote only interactions…

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Probably. But seniors and managers aren’t going to the office because they aren’t lost like I am and don’t seem to care. So why would I go to the office when no one is there to train me? I’m leaving soon.

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Key part of what you said: they don’t seem to care. That’s where it starts. If they cared, you would be getting the help you deserve regardless of where you’re located. Sorry to hear that you weren’t.

Of course. Unless you doing more than rubbing shoulders

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Rubbing shoulders is just the pc phrase for kissing ass

Of course?

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Going to the office or client site does not make you a higher performer. Lower performers are easily identifier whether remote or at a client site

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I don't see why not. I talk to management just as often if not more than when in person.

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I know in audit, a lot of small clients won’t have us back in person so it would probably be mostly virtual. Hard to think people would be penalized for the clients they’re on.

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