{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Thoughts on calling out companies pursuing CSR activities while causing harm in their core operations like maybe Goldman with its 10,000 Women initiative?", "post_id": "5d6c76c8c5dbaf001aa14d4b", "reply_count": 46, "vote_count": 8, "bowl_id": "552d1d24dc1c586b09d2d051", "bowl_name": "Consulting" }

Thoughts on calling out companies pursuing CSR activities while causing harm in their core operations like maybe Goldman with its 10,000 Women initiative?

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Yes, securitization in general was a driver for sure. And yes, GS along with every other bank on Wall Street participated in this market. But GS was one of the first to exit and get these off their balance sheet. Separately, Would argue that the institutional investors who bought these MBS had the responsibility to do their own due diligence. They weren’t selling to mom and pops. Lastly, institutional investors took comfort in the securities due to inflated credit ratings from the rating agencies. Lots of things went wrong leading up to the crisis (including bad models from the quants) but root cause was definitely not GS securitization activities.

@OP - At a layman’s level there is a reason why we categorically separate organizations considered “for-profit” and “non-profit”. Do you think Google, Facebook, Amazon, or literally any of the Fortune 1000 companies, which are by definition “businesses”, were built on selfless intentions or to simply give everything away? Creating and developing something for the sole purpose of building wealth, power and giving your family a higher standard of living is also considered a fair purpose that can rightfully be adopted in one’s life. There’s a proverb in east Asia that describes this well - “birds and beasts fight and die for food, and humans fight and die for wealth”. In fact if you open your eyes and read you will quickly realize that human history is full of organizations or “companies” that were developed for the same purpose ranging from the monarchy of a country to dictatorships in the world today, to socio-political groups or even a start up in Silicon Valley. Good to intentions need to be backed by significant wealth and power lest their impact be reduced to a drop of water falling into a raging ocean. Developing that power means that at some point, even a saint needs to come to terms with the fact that there is no such things as eternal/blanket 1. good (read the history of the Vatican) 2. evil (compare Germany today with Nazi Germany) 3. friendships (look at Russia and China) 4. enemity (US and Germany) The sustenance and longevity of a person or thing is directly proportional to the benefits and profits that it has the capital to participate in the exchange of. Granted that people can display acts of greed and selfishness in the process of procuring such wealth but that doesn’t mean everyone does it all the time nor does it mean that any of the “woke police” have any right to ask them to share the benefits. That like the moral equivalent of a lowly scavenger demanding a pride of lions to share their meat with the Savannah. You can make a scene but if you don’t have the capital to ask, you’re simply courting death 😂 As I mentioned in my previous comment, it’s always the same set of people that crib and whine and demand from the wealthy and powerful. Yet NONE of these people ever dedicated their own lives to build such an organization or try to reach that level. Nor are any of them willing to be the first ones to disperse their own resources for the same selflessness and charity that the so desperately demand and fight to receive lol It’s honestly disdainful🤮

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Sure did, do you know much about the crisis? Goldman doesn’t even have a retail mortgage business.. odd bank to pick on as cause of the financial crisis. Bad government policy (ie CRA act, decisions by the GSEs to push subprime loans) were primary drivers. Also the millions of consumers who took out loans for homes they couldn’t afford.

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That’s true too.

And OP, some friendly advice. your snarkiness is not going to get you far in consulting. Can promise you that. Especially being as uninformed as you are. Breathe, read, learn, check your arrogance, repeat.

funnyuplifting

However, when people at our firms are so ignorant about the negative impact some of our clients have, I feel well within my rights to call them out, be angry, etc. If that means I don’t get “far” in consulting, totally cool 👍

likeuplifting

Appreciate the friendliness

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Back on topic, op..... Call them out. I don’t think call out culture generally is healthy— I’ve seen enough friendly fire burn a lot of well meaning folks. But I think it’s worth reminding people. For example, while Carnegie’s billions established the network of Carnegie libraries, and billions in philanthropy, the ruthless capitalist also did little to protect worker conditions or environmental regulations.

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D1 - oof the snark, no more friendliness :( wish we could have productive conversations on this app honestly

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Agree on calling them out. Just call out the right ones in an educated way otherwise it’s counterproductive. Remember these large companies employ tens of thousands of mostly good people with families. And coming from an employee of an audit firm who has consistently had bad press on the quality of their audits of public companies held by retail investors. Well, people in glass houses...

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Deloitte 1 - I think we can find better examples than a company who operated a century ago in a vastly different economic and political environment like Carnegie. I think there would be consensus that any industrial company pre real environmental regulations in the US would be considered bad actors.

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You post nonsense here, have no understanding of what you posted, and I’m the ignorant one? Sure some firms create harm, but at least I know what I’m talking about when I choose to have a POV on which ones / in what capacity. Also, you should probably exit the Big 4 and start an organic farm or something given your attitude.

Deloitte 1 - that’s an interesting twist for sure. Carnegie is a good example of short term harm and long term benefit There probably has to be a different framework to address temporality in this way - this article refers to companies simultaneously doing little things like donating to soup kitchens while also lobbying for the 2017 tax cuts.

This was productive and was my intent until you started the attacks and sneers. just sore you got corrected on a public forum. Still willing to help you understand financial markets if ever interested.

Deloitte 1 - actually this sort of idea probably invalidates the Effective Altruism movement. True a kid might be able to have more impact by first working at a hedge fund and then donating money to NGOs after s/he makes it. However if the hedge fund impact is taken into account, it could/would probably negate it

Why don’t we focus on Chinese companies who are still polluting unchecked and Indonesian/Pakistani companies who employ child labor?

Fully agree SC1. Companies have a responsibility to be opportunistic and make a profit. If act illegally (fraud, pollute, child labor) let’s lock up those responsible. But to trash an entire firm on something that is far more complicated than OP and most others care to understand, doesn’t help anyone but their own egos.

SC1 - I would question the idea that businesses are first built to profit. The Friedman view is outdated and frankly arbitrary. That’s a very modern conception of a corporation

He has a point. All those counties with rainbow logos during pride month - do you really think they care about gay people, or are they trying to score public opinion points. It's always about preserving the bottom line.

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