Tired of spending insane hours and effort (two different things, lets be real) on projects and then being left off production.

More tired of talking myself into thinking next time will be different.

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I’m somehow both encouraged and discouraged to see someone else complain about this

The good news: it’s not just my agency
The bad news: it’s not just my agency

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Oh yeah, I’m definitely interested + do work on all that stuff. And I do talk to my CDs about it- “is there anything I can do/ someone I can talk to/it’s such valuable experience” super polite and enthused. It’s just one of those things I fight super hard on but it never seems to work out.

Working on props and wardrobe and locations is so fun and I love it but it’s also what kind of what makes it worse to then be told “change of plans - ya can’t go now.”

I was hoping to hear more people have this experience too, CW1. Was starting to think I’m the worst, even though I’m writing all this stuff getting made.

I wish that agencies worked harder to ensure that we get experience producing our own work. I also wish that really old fashion thought that ADs can handle it solo because they have ‘the vision’ would die. We all know a lot of the time it’s us with the vision—we DID write it, after all.

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You’re not going to want to hear this but you aren’t making yourself indispensable enough. I always go on the shoots because I’ve built a reputation that I know every nuance backwards and forwards of the campaign. Most of the time the producers and account people think I’m the art director because I’m that involved with the details. Because that’s what matters on a shoot getting every single detail perfect.

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One reco - try getting more involved in preproduction. At my last agency, I would collaborate with my AD on storyboards, mood / style boards, wardrobe and props, casting, etc. Let your boss know you’d be really interested in working on that stuff, and then add value if you get a chance to help out.

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Have you spoken up to your CD?

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I know exactly how you feel. I’m 3 years in to my career as a CW and I am JUST starting to go on shoots. They used to always cut me out because of budget or other reasons... keep fighting the good fight and doing good work. If it’s not this one, your next job will do it.

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CW2, it’s not that I don’t want to hear that, but I know that I put a shit ton more heart into this stuff than some of the ADs I work with. I actually have an AD background so I’m super involved with all those nuances. But at the end of the day I’m not gonna tell a coworker that I actually made the look + feel book and not my AD. I make sure to always say “we”. How do you go about asserting yourself without overstepping? Does it bother your AD that you get mistaken for one?

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I’m not too far along in my career, but just want to say so far (less than a year), I’ve been able to go on some shoots and get production experience purely by being at a small shop. Not sure how big your agency is, but the smaller the shop, the more chances to get involved (obviously other trade-offs).

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This happens to me constantly. You are not alone! I finally just went on my first shoot after working for 5 years. Meanwhile other copywriters have gotten to go. The idea that you aren’t “indispensable” enough is bullshit. You also have to be given opportunities. I ask for work and speak up all the time but it takes a CD that actually wants to help you grow

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SAME. I honestly feel like it’s up to management to lift up their teams and recognize that we can’t just be a team when it’s convenient for the client. Set a precedent and build it into the upfront budget. Not including the copywriter, especially in live tweet situations, makes them seem replaceable in an industry where everyone thinks they an write.

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I hear you. Try writing something that is going to be slightly unscripted — relying on interviews or improv from the actors. Get them to be the ones saying they need a writer on set to pull it off. But honestly, an agency that doesn’t understand or respect how much you need to do in production has to be a pretty frustrating agency. Maybe you should look into other options. It’s good that you present a united front with your AD, I wouldn’t change that. It’s just bad that they don’t treat you like one.

Oh, and it’s just as important to get the producer to push for you to be there as it is for your CD. Make sure they know it will go smoothly with you there, and not so smoothly without you.

Do you work at Fcb?

@CW2 How do your ADs feel when others think you’re the AD?

I’ve had this experience recently. Wish I had feedback for you.

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