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This hits home.
Trump doing much better tonight (so far)
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Turn off Fox
Parties for just a second a really think about whether Trump is the guy we want to stake our grand (and successful) democratic experiment on. Does he really feel like the ticket to bet our future and our children’s future on. The answer should be clear, but it’s alarming that this is the type of $&@? that may have to happen for us to wake up and stop rooting for one color of the flag and instead start rooting for the whole thing
Agreed but how do we get people to ignore their personal voting history and wake up to what is going on today?
I disagree. Humans naturally cooperate. We’re social creatures. That’s the human nature. This sort of fatalistic attitude is accepting exactly what the Russians want without putting up any sort of fight. What would be the course of action you recommend as an alternative to what I’m proposing? Honestly, just level with me. You really think it’s preferable to fight each other instead of the real enemy that’s just trying to drag us down? Don’t you think it’s premature to just accept what the Russians are doing and cut half of the country out of itself? Have you thought bout what an actual divided states of America would look like with real borders and the consequences of that? I know it’s hard to fight this, and that’s why I’m speaking up for the first time ever on here, but this fight against the Russians will be far easier than dealing with that alternative. When we fight each other win over one another, all we’ll do is lose together. That’s what binds us together. A real incentive to keep winning together like we’ve been winning for the past century.
Turn off CNN
CNN and Fox agreed that yesterday was a disaster
Nice thought but a bit naïve I think.
I’ve spent considerable time in very different parts of this country, from the small town Deep South to the urban Northeast. There are some profound differences in cultural norms and values at play here; let’s not forget that only 150 years ago our nation was at war with itself.
Saying there are no “red Americans or blue Americans, just Americans” may be true if you’re talking about citizenship, but the political and cultural dynamics are far more complicated. It’s a large part of why so many people will continue to follow a man like Trump to the bitter end - because he represents “their side”, “their America”, and “their values."
Which is why I think we’re destined to fracture. Russia has found and successfully exploited those differences, and created what I think are ultimately irreconcilable chasms. It might take decades for it to happen, it might happen all at once in a violent upheaval, but I think it will happen. Our experiment is on the brink of failure and I don’t see how we correct course from here.
Never let a good crisis go to waste. The chasm may very well open up and cause irreparable harm to our preeminent status in the world, but the citizens most likely to feel that harm are squarely in the Republican base. I think when the reality of their decisions begins to dawn on people we’ll see them come to terms and put 2 and 2 together. In the meantime, this defeatist attitude is not helping anyone. No one won a battle by feeling sorry for themselves and while 40% of America may be lax to change their voting habits or views, they’re not too far gone. Maybe some portion of them are, but remember that there’s a whole hell of a lot of people that didn’t vote in 2016. If you want to change things around and don’t think 40% of America will listen, then talk to the 40% of America that didn’t even vote. This is still a democracy and majority rules, we just need to stir up enough of a ruckus that the remaining 40% of America that didn’t vote last go around can be bothered enough to realize the serious situation that is going on. In the end though, we cannot give up on each other. It will only fuel this partisan hell even more. It my not look like it right now, but this situation is an opportunity for us to put the partisan genie back in the bottle and learn from that mistake going forward. When real damage starts happening, we need leaders in America that can call a truce to this partisan hell we’ve been living in because it’s done nothing but drag the whole ship down. There’s gotta be less politicking and more scheming because the other countries in the world are sniping at us and catching up. It’s time for us to circle the wagons and put our gloves up. We’ve had dark days before, when generations past have risen up. It’s our turn now, so chin up.
Pwc, you are against the human nature. There will never be a eternal alliance, eternal empire, or a eternal republic. This country is too big, too diverse to govern. Look at Europe, they are fracturing for the same reason. Like the late Rome empire, politicians joggle for positions invited barbarians into the country who eventually brought down the empire. In next 10-20 years, the cost of social programs will catch up with you. People face lower standard of living tend to blame each other.
I think your over/attributing altruistic tendencies to people with money and power. Average people struggling to survive work together. Also, communities are held together by fear/hatred of others, and respect for authority (religion and being part of the right religion are important here...)
You are wrong about human nature. People only cooperate when there is common interest. Right now, we do not share common interests at all.
To answer your question, in order to preserve the republic, you will need to minimize it. Reduce the size and scope of the federal government to minimum functions agreed by everyone, such as national security, central bank etc. And leave all the social functions to the states. The states will compete in their economic and social modes. Some states will fail undoubtedly. But it is their own choosing.
You are also wrong in asserting persuasion and voting to establish a majority will resolve the issues faced by this country. That is essentially Democrats is doing. By gaming the system through any means possible they try to assert their will on the “minority”. But when the 13 colonies rose up against British rule, they did not care the how English and Scottish people would vote.
Tell me this, if the majority makes all decisions of tax and spending, what is the minority’s stake in this republic? We are going back to taxation without representation.
@accenture1 true, I’m speaking in generalities about a whole population. I’m not naive to think everyone is gonna jump on board but I think the bulk population will continue to see the advantages in continuing to act together and live together rather than splintering. And at the end of the day, as the Russian and Chinese menace
(Oops, cont’d) as the Russian and Chinese menace continues to grow, that fear of overtaken should also help to bind us together in the realization that we can only take back that preeminent status as a united group
To KPMG, idk why you think we have no common interest. Even you and I, who clearly have very different ideas about government have a shared interest in the US maintaining its global dominance from both an economic and militaristic perspective: we benefit from a higher standard of living. And that’s all that people care about in a lot of ways. I’m not being fanciful or high minded in my belief that we still have strong ties that will keep us together; a lot of it still comes down to dollars, cents, and a lot of it comes from our values in how we believe a government should be constructed and run. And your solution to the issue recognizes that it is possible to keep us together and while I may disagree that it’s the only way to do so, it’s still a legit option that’s worth debating about. What I hate is your original comment where you already determined that this country is too big and too diverse to govern, but then offered up a solution to refute that theory. We may very well go down, but we’re jumping the gun when we say it’s a foregone conclusion and in the meantime we should try like hell to work together to forestall that possibility because of the shared interests we have and that you recognize in your own solution.
Now, on to your issues with a majority. A clear majority that speaks consistently will clear many of the issues in this country so long as the majority is respectful of the minority. We’re losing our civility and respect for each other and while a lot of people may think that’s for sissies, it’s what keeps us from viewing each other as enemies. I mean I don’t really care who you want to point the finger at; I’m sure both parties are to blame in many ways, but it doesn’t matter. We’re a part of a democratic system that is predicated on majority rule with rights for the minority. Whichever way that majority ends up, we should respect the majority rule so long as it is respectful of the minority as well. My political beliefs could very well end up in the minority, but as long as the majority is respectful and does it’s best to not place undue burdens on me, then I will continue to participate in it. Taking your ball and walking away from a democracy just because you don’t like how the tide is flowing is irresponsible and childish. If you didn’t want to play by a democracy’s rules, you shouldn’t join and participate in one to begin with if you can’t come to grips with the possibility you may be overruled by a majority. Instead of warning of an open rebellion, you should spend that time and effort trying to persuade people of your opinions, not strongarming them via threats of violence. Cultivate your own majority while you’re in the minority, don’t strongarm people via threats of violence because then you’ll make that an acceptable tactic to use against yourself.
As a final aside, tyranny of the majority in our government is somewhat prevented by the Senate. Even with a clear majority, the Senate would likely be the bulwark representative for the minority in the country. And the minority’s stake in the country would continue to be an interest in shared gains for the country as a whole— both economic and value-based. So long as the majority doesn’t alienate the minority (which they have an interest in NOT doing) then I think your theory in single party rule is also a bit fatalistic.
@pwc, thanks for the civil discussion. I think your rebuttal is well reasoned, well written and shows a good heart. However, our differences remain.
In 2010, I predicted this country will disintegrate within 25 years. More recently the intellectuals from left and right have picked this up - there is basically very little to hold this country together.
Here is one of those well written piece:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/opinion/sunday/united-states-too-big.html