Pro
Related Posts
I have two years of automotive/aerospace manufacturing experience and am looking for new opportunities. I recently applied to a Solution Engineer - Commercial Manufacturing, Automotive, Energy (MAE) role at Salesforce, and it sounds like a great fit. Is anyone willing to offer me a referral or advice on how to move forward in the hiring process? Salesforce
More Posts
Additional Posts in Advertising
Anyone on here worked with Edelman? Pros? Cons?
How’s BFG lookin these days?
What agency is doing the new Twizzler ads?
Chief
New to Fishbowl?
Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Here’s one way to look at it. No matter who you hire, whether from a school or the best agencies, you’re rolling the dice. How many people have come from great agencies (particularly the ones that get too big) only to find that their talent doesn’t match their book? A costly investment. Maybe it’s time we relook at this. If we’re taking a chance no matter what, maybe we ought to bet on the underdog more often.
Pro
for sure, looking for potential.
but also it’s hard to turn away talent when you find those that have the hard skills already developed, all things being equal (other than schooling).
the training of hard skills often come with portfolio schools, and those self-taught don’t always know how or where to learn those skills.
Pro
Here’s the recording of the session & the deck. Enjoy!
Thank you so very much for attending our Ask a Recruiter Series event, 10 Portfolio Commandments! WOW! We had 140+ attendees yesterday, our largest happy hour yet!
For those of you who may have missed the event, you can check it out here (passcode: h3&ceg$Z). We will be sharing out a blog post recapping the HH that will highlight the key points of the session so look out for that!
Here's the deck for you to check out the 10 Portfolio Commandments. https://drive.google.com/file/d/19VUfv80XL3BhFd3JjAHJSdS2QGDJDKES/view
And here are all of the portfolios the panelists loved and talked about yesterday:
https://ceciliaazcarate.com
https://www.juancamillogarza.com/
http://www.anttull.com/
https://robs-park.com/Info
https://ngallagher.design/
http://www.davidpacheco.co/
https://www.instagram.com/celia.shoots.on.film/
https://www.instagram.com/edgartcb/?hl=en
http://mcqueenmcqueen.com/
https://www.itsmetanner.com/
http://y78.fr/
http://eddelacruz.com/
Pro
this is awesome and you’re awesome.
Look for potential, not proof.
There’s always a clue hidden in there. You might have to dig.
You seem like a good person, CD. Respect~
Pro
appreciate it 🙏
I’d try to get the non portfolio school candidates in paid internships
Pro
good idea
I’m 150k in debt from loans going to this school and need you to hire me so I can pay it off. Not everyone who went to portfolio/ art school used mommy and daddy’s money
I went 100k in debt going to VCU because I had to use loans for COL as well.
I don’t regret it, but it’s a big hole to fill.
Before portfolio school I just didn’t know what I didn’t know. School so valuable, of course, because of the coaching itself, but also because it opened my eyes to what’s out there. Comm Arts. Hey Whipple. The Advertising Concept Book. Art & Copy. D&AD. AIGA. WeAreNext. Even just knowing who are the top agencies to watch. There is a whole world that ad school introduced me to, but you don’t have to go to ad school for it. If they’re hungry and have potential, some resources like these could go a long way! (btw you sound rad and we need more people like you who care about changing the industry)
Pro
i AM rad, aren’t i?
spoiler: i’m not really, but i appreciate it 🤙
and hopefully i can send some of those resources along to people who can use them without going to portfolio school. many could get the benefit without the cost.
Hire writers who can write and art directors who can design or do art or make film. People with a POV and creative energy. Then teach them how to construct ad campaigns.
Rising Star
interesting. i’ve found that the craft is easier to teach, if the thinking and concepting ability is there.
I guess it depends on how much of a teaching role you want (or you want your agency) to have. If you (like most people) wanna hire someone who knows what theyre doing on day one, you should hire someone from ad school.
If you want to feel like you “discovered” somebody, but know you have to work with them to teach them fundamentals and who knows what else, then go with (who you feel for whatever reason is) a diamond in the rough.
I think that we should not (me too) watch at portfolios thinking
"Is this person ready to work efficiently from day 0?"
(which often makes shiny portfolios fascinating)
but thinking instead
"Is there anything in the attitude or style of this person that can make the difference for us in the medium term?"
(which is not necessarily detected in a finely crafted portfolio)
Best creatives I ever worked with didn’t even have books
Yeah it’s certainly not the norm at all. My bookless creatives were working for high ups of a parent company and were sorta shuffled into creatives. They absolutely killed until sort of burning out and losing interest. So not hyperbolic, but they were only mid level- senior AD/CW level when they fled the biz. Funny how sometimes the non-traditional creatives can absolutely kill.
The “I am the book” comment is gold. Bravo.
Pro
to add why there’s a benefit, i’m passing on the best books to recruiters and fellow CDs.
Love this and wish more would think about it. Hire for smart ideas, not slick execution.
would you happen to have room for one more book to review? 👉👈
Pro
ya send away. i have a list of 250+, so it’s taking me a while.
Pro
@CD we just published our “10 Portfolio Commandments” and hosted a session with Jeff Kling, and a bunch of CD’s and Talent peeps from the Ask A Recruiter Bowl. Gonna message you so I can send you the deck. I think I have found that showing people great portfolios and examples is helpful in explaining what we’re looking for.
I never want to rip someone’s book to shreds without having them first understand what the bar is.
Can you post a link to the deck here?
Wait, what? Why are we anti ad school?
There are good and bad juniors with an ad school education and without.
Student books are a reasonable metric for evaluation. If another presents itself and you feel it, go with it.
But I would hire based on individual merit with and without ad education, right?
I'm pretty much anti-ad school in terms of a school book being the industry accepted bar for talent, and have been fairly vocal about it. It would be more legit IMO if the path was that of a more traditional trade school, and students were encouraged to forego a college/university experience and tuition. But price tag attached to the path to a career in advertising as a creative is just too damn high particularly considering the hard skills that are learned, or lack thereof, and the typical entry level salary. That hiring is always a risk was a great point made elsewhere. Also, that ad schools won't go away. But we need to collectively broaden our search in terms of how we define and judge an entry level advertising creative portfolio.
Are you in the US? The reason I'm asking is I often get the sense that those looking for an internship only get one shot when they send their book. It's yes or no. In the UK, the norm is that teams get feedback from a few CDs at a few agencies, and they action the feedback from the CD they want to work for. I've oversimplified it, but maybe that's a way for you to test out the potential in someone who's not from an ad school? Get that you're inundated with books, but if you could select a few, and sort of CD their book, then have them come back, you'd get a feel for how they could grow. It might level out the playing field for the people who haven't had the luxury of spending time with teachers at ad schools. It's really cool what you're trying to do!
Ah I see. It's a shame, because that can hardly be called a learning curve if there's no allowance for actual learning. More like a barrier. Imagine it's time-consuming, but if you can CD student books and invite them come back, I imagine they'd grow a lot from the experience!
Rising Star
If you see any good ones that have entertainment experience would you send them my way. I'm hiring. Needs to be based in LA or willing to move to LA. Unfortunately relocation expenses is not provided for juniors.
Maybe you could link them with creatives that have the time/chops to guide them through the process of building a portfolio that would help them to compete with the ad school grads. In an ideal world you’d be the one to guide them, but you probably don’t have the time to do so.
I know I personally would love to help get people from non-traditional backgrounds into the industry. I just don’t get books sent to me as I’m just a midweight at a holding co with no major awards or control over the hiring process 😅
Anyway, let me know if this is something you’d be interested in and we can chat further!
Of course mate
There's not much you could do honestly. One way to get great work done and also lend a helping hand to someone who couldn't afford to go to portfolio school would be to hire a great CW from portfolio school and a good but not great AD with no background.
That way, you're guaranteed to get great concepts and awesome lines, and it's easy to cover up the ADs lack of greatness. However, it's really important that the two work well together and there's no way you can know that before it happens.
Absolutely!