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Proximity definitely plays a role.
How many corporations and countries now crying out for Ukraine did the same as China destroyed one freedom after another in Hong Kong, also amounting to invasion by an authoritarian state of a democratic one?
🇺🇦 🇭🇰
Not a good comparison. More people died in the first minute in Ukraine than all of Hong Kong in three months. No one was killed by artillery shell or air strike and Hong Kong is already part of China. Russian invasion of Ukraine is pure naked aggression between states.
We care about our allies more than our non allies and our allies typically our democracies or countries of strategic importance. If Russia was attacking Belarus, we wouldn't care as much
So syria palestine is not an ally? You care about politics not humans? No comment reslly..
Sad to see how uninformed people are so eager to post these things. I was in college when Bush began pounding the war drum. I had zero interest in politics to this point but it triggered me getting engaged and staying engaged.
Taking an anti Iraq war position was attacked relentlessly by the Republicans who ran our government and the media who carried their water. We were deemed to be anti American, had a hatred of “freedom”, “pacifists” who would never support any military action even when directly attacked. And when they heard us criticize the war they went straight to classic right wing cancel culture. Boycotts and attacking any organization with ties to someone who dared question that war. And the classic authoritarian claim that you “can’t criticize Bush because he’s a President in a time of war.” Any of this sound familiar? To those who think Trump came out of nowhere it probably does but some of us still have the memory
Instead of coming on here to try and give a gotcha, go back and try to figure out how you got something so comically wrong. And in the meantime maybe be proactive and try to ask what those of us who got this one right were seeing that others weren’t.
With a side of Freedom Onion Soup
There are a lot of reasons why this war is getting more attention/traction than previous ones. Some may be the 'white Christian European' examples that make it look somewhat hypocritical. There may be others that are more understandable-like a generation of Americans learning from the mistakes made in Iraq/Afghanistan being horrified but not advocating for the US to send troops to Ukraine, most of of Europe seeing this happen to neighboring countries so it feels very close to home (or for the uS, close to territory we have promised to defend)/more people have ties, a lack of a clear reason for Russia to invade a foreign country and try to destroy it like he's back in the 1800s, the power of the internet and social media making it easier and easier to get a lot of real-time and personal experiences to the rest of the world, and Ukraine having a master communicator as a leader.
Also some of us are too young to have participated independently in previous anti-war protests lol
Chief
This is your time D5, to hit the streets! Let your voice be heard! If we don’t protest we are compliant. It’s a very interesting aspect of democracy.
This is different bc it is happening in the center of Europe and it is echoing WW2 / hitler vibes (not related to the ethnic cleansing part) - basically euro powers appeasing a mad desperate dictator clinging to whatever power source - the threat is to Western Europe / the west if russia can just waltz in, bomb civilians and take over a country. Why would he stop at one country, why not take over the next democracy available. That’s why
Russia invading Ukraine is a threat to Europe. Europe is our NATO ally. We need to stand up for our allies. Therefore we, as Americans, need to resist the war. Seems pretty simple. Why does this have to be viewed as racist? Because it’s easy to tag racism to everything? China invading Taiwan would get the same response. Or Japan attacked by China. I wish there was as much noise when Russia annexed Crimea during Obama’s presidency. I am not blonde, I don’t have blue eyes, I am not white skinned. But I am still American and I do believe we have to support our interests and our allies’ interests.
Also, the other conflicts that OP mentioned…while it is true that they may not be as popular in news media, American diplomacy still does work in the background to try to resolve the conflicts…
Lastly, the Iraq war was 100% unjustified and there were protests everywhere against it. Bush should have lost re-election if the Democrat establishment had put up a stronger candidate against him.
A9, they were not checking citizenship. they were checking hair, eyes and skin. they stopped indians but let go polish. you two wish so many things to match your rhetoric but you two are just exposing yourself more and more.
you wrote two paragraphs of everything but missed one simple line of yes it was racist of them to segregate people based on skin color as a national ID. This is how deep rooted racism is in this country and around the world. you see blatant racism and you bring your professional paragraph writing skills in the play and see if you can defend your unconscious biases
Pro
because social media propaganda wasn't really a thing back then.
Just look at how every western country's populace on social media is pro-war in this scenario, without any neutral data for their opinions. Hell there was a study done that showed that people who did not where Ukraine was geographically located tended to be more pro-war
Pro
I was in 5th grade. Then I joined the military to allow myself to get a good education. Those 8 years really shaped a strong anti-war mindset. war sucks.
Americans have protested wars of the 20/21st centuries.
Are you seriously questioning what is the UN doing?
Cause if you are not aware, there are 5 permanent members of the security council who each can veto adoption of any resolution. 4 of these members are the US, China, France, and the UK.
Guess who is the 5th one?
Rising Star
Where were we? Protesting and making a lot of noise while Bush’s administration tricked Colin Powell into lying to the world about the presence of WMDs.
Afghanistan had very high support around the world (it was a NATO mission, not just US) because it was mostly seen as a direct response to 9/11. Though plenty of us were arguing that an invasion to topple a theocratic government wasn’t the right response, and pretty much everyone said nation-building is a futile measure doomed to fail when backed solely by the American military.
I’m confused why some don’t understand why this is getting so much attention. Putting aside how horrible it is that humans are killing each other which I think most agree is undesirable, what does the West do if Putin targets hospitals and food lines like he did in Syria. What happens if he takes over Ukraine and decides that he doesn’t like the fact that his new neighbor Poland is in NATO and lobs rockets at them, which would require a response by NATO. Then we have super powers at war and that likely would not be good for anybody on Earth.
Pro
Those were religiously motivated so most Americans had no problems with them.
Anti War People were everywhere when the invasion of Iraq happened. I was in college, in the military, and campus was very uncomfortable for me. The narrative shifted when people had to reckon with the fact that people were dying and in a Machiavellian sense, had a justified means to an end. Saddam and his boys were terrible people and most who I encountered in Iraq were grateful for our presence.
US has equal role to play in this. All Russia asked was not to have their armies close to the border and remove your nuclear missiles from areas close to Russian border. Imagine Russia having missiles close to Us border .. remember cuban missile crisis?
US is a hypocrite. Russia is an aggressor. Period
I think the EU has an equal, if not bigger, role to play in this than the US. It’s easy to put the blame on the US but EU wants Ukraine aligned to the west for its own security against Russia. EU probably wants Ukraine in NATO more than the US.
https://www.rferl.org/amp/ukraine-president-signs-constitutional-amendment-on-nato-eu-membership/29779430.html
Russia, a major world power, invading and possibly annexing a country wishing to join the EU and NATO, is always going to make more headlines than war in the Middle East or between smaller countries. If something goes wrong in this situation, it could start WWIII. I think that possibility is why everyone is freaking out, and not actually because people are fighting.
*Azerbaijan attacked Armenia
They could’ve protested peacefully without blocking the entire 101 freeway, without burning flags, and without randomly attacking passerbys on the streets of LA.
So so many bad takes. There were ENORMOUS protests in every city in the western world when the US invaded Iraq. I’m quite certain these remain the largest protests in history for most big western cities.
Two weeks ago, as 180K soldiers surrounded Ukraine, I was wondering where those anti war activists were to protest? This wasn’t a surprise.
9/11 bitch! Attack us and we might just invade a few countries. Never forget!
My memory of international politics in 2003 is hazy since I was like, 8. But even I remember loads of protests of the Iraq war.
The war was never popular with 40%+ of the American public. You could make the same argument about it that people are making now about the ordinary Russians protesting at home.
1) Where were the anti war people? At the voting booths, protests, calling their senators etc. Let’s not act as if the entire US population was supporting the war for the entire 20 year timeframe.
2) Does a white country get more visibility? Let’s not forget US bombed Serbia, a white Cristian country in Europe in the 90s so it’s not as much about whiteness as it is about the US interests. In this case, Ukraine being taken over threatens the safety of US/NATO (there’s more to that and you can research the US interests yourself). There are also economic interests, money always drives conflict.
Other countries around the world also need to show up for their ‘neighbors’ and form alliances.
M3 has valid points. both us and russia are trying to defend their actions based on their interests. the sheeps try to rationalize the moral and the righteousness to justify their biases.