{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Why does MBB pay Data scientists who do ML so poorly? The average DS comp is 250-350K with a few years of experience but MBB only pay 150K maybe. Top tier tech companies like Airbnb, Snap, Netflix would pay 450-550K with 4-5YOE and a MS degree. Why do MBB not pay top compensation for Data Science/ML? Seems like consulting in general doesn’t even pay 25% for these skills which are rare to find yet they’re getting paid 🥜 only 150K-200K max at MBB at the consultant level.How do they retain talent?", "post_id": "60e239fdd3b3fc002ed9566e", "reply_count": 96, "vote_count": 13, "bowl_id": "552d1d24dc1c586b09d2d051", "bowl_name": "Consulting", "feed_type": "crowd" }
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First, I would strongly encourage any of our DS or DE colleagues who can make $500k pa to try and go do so if that’s what they want. Second, those companies have a different business model, serve different customers, and value different things than MBB. You might say that’s insane because we should want the best or are losing a war for talent. But ask, why do people go to P&G, GE, or the Gates Foundation post-MBA if they can earn so much more at MBB? Why do people go to MBB if they can earn so much more at hedge funds? Why don’t all MBB leave for hedge funds after 1-2 years? Different motivations, different work, limited demand/slots, etc all play. Same with FAANG. Third, I can say with the confidence of a guy who has worked at FAANG, startups, and MBB that you’re looking at the outliers. Most SWEs and DS in the US make nothing remotely close to $500k with a few YOE. For those good and lucky enough to get a FAANG gig, more than half that comp is equity on a vesting schedule. Many SWEs don’t make it to the truly large cliffs, quitting or getting laid off before they vest year 3 (these companies are not dumb). Of those who make it, this comp is obviously tied to stock performance. It’s been great for 10+ years, but, at some point, won’t be. So this “guaranteed” $500k is anything but. So we should stop with “it isn’t true” or calling BS on these numbers. Let’s just acknowledge that it isn’t the norm for the average DS, it isn’t the norm for the kinds of DS we hire, and isn’t something even the top DS that go to FAANG can count on earning in reality.

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Great argument McK7 To add to it I think one of the biggest attractions to MBB (at least personally) is the clear career path. I know exactly what it would take me to get to at least AP. And when the company doesn’t want me to get there (or doesn’t believe I will) I will be explicitly let know. There’s always going to be a job that at one point in time under specific circumstances will pay more - whether as average or an outlier.

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Data scientist are actually generating revenue at tech companies not running POC’s or building reports like consulting companies use them for

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Lol, lots of reasons OP. Too many to count. Just try to jump to tech OP, no point in fighting. These are dead industries.

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Not really sure which job you're talking about that pays half a million every year for DS. Those cats have PhDs in their fields at the big tech companies and are extremely well versed in what they do. The consulting firms will rarely have someone with a PhD, mostly just a master's.

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Enough people here are telling your YoE is incorrect but you refuse to acknowledge that. I believe people get paid $500K in tech because I know people that do . But they do not have 4YoE. And if you want to go MS+5YoE Then as my post above suggests I can make that much with MBA + 4YoE. Only difference is by 7-8 YoE I can be a partner making $1M+ So idk what makes you believe that consulting won’t pay that. Maybe for DS yes because as people have also been stating it’s a different business model. But on the Partner track I am on track to out earn all this stuff and screenshots you’ve been posting to prove your point

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Forgive my ignorance, but are there significant consulting project that require the deep ML skills that many tech company focus on?

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This. MBB needs basic ML for specific use cases. We are not trying to be big tech.

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$500K with 5 yoe after Masters. What world you are living in OP? Your numbers are just way off.

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Probably a good idea to exit to tech then.

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OP, I encourage you do your OWN research. Come back and give us an answer. Everyone here is giving your valid reasons, but you’re set on your own way of thinking. Cheers.

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Honestly, because most clients probably don’t know the difference between good and great and it’s hard to bill out at multiples of the salary you mentioned. Also, personally I think if you have a business problem where you can make a lot of money by making your algorithms 1-2% better then you probably should develop your own data science capability.

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Why not go to those companies like Airbnb, Netflix, snap, etc. and leave consulting if you’re looking for significant compensation increase and they’re willing to pay you what you want?

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Consulting is already upping their game in how they hire, how they promote and soon how they pay. You used to need an MBA to go beyond BA. You don’t any more, you can skip straight to EM. Likewise, you needed an MBA and 3-5 YoE to get the post MBA role -now you just need an MBA. Promotions are also accelerating and with BCG leading pay has started to increase.

😂 that’s not the average data scientist comp with a few years of experience. Maybe FAANG comp.

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It is not. Ask someone that works there.

I am sure someone makes that much money. If someone is salty about how much a company is or isn't paying then prove your worth by getting that 500k job. Many people here have jumped ship into jobs paying them 30,40% more-maybe not half million levels but still thats an extra half year salary change. No company is perfect in compensation and if every company needs to match highest or top tier money then they would be out of business. This is not like NFL where there's only a few person who can do the job...

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1) FAANG DS do not make 500k, that’s absolutely bonkers comp, give receipts or get outta here 2) MBB DS coming in with experience makes ~200k TC as an ASC , with much higher comp trajectory than FAANG over 5-7 years

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Thanks for the receipts OP - a few things I would consider from seeing that picture: 1) The YOE required for the position - most of these jobs require phd’s and many YOE. Total comp is probably equivalent to an AP at McKinsey which most folks (DS included) get to after 4-6 years. I think overall it’s probably a wash with MBB but partners (6-8 YOE) definitely have an opportunity to make more. The MBB Value prop for pay is in the trajectory. 2) the total pay in the screenshot is *inclusive of stock and equity grants*, which are not paid out as comp in the typical sense. Some of these grants will take multiple years to vest, which sort of dilutes the comp. A bit of primary sources I’ve heard from: I have a sibling that works as a senior SWE in FAANG and a good friend who is an applied scientist at Amazon. They both have salary structures that conform to the above, with the total *annual comp* being much lower that what’s shown and slightly diluted

Data scientists at MBB (and OW) make far more than 150k for 5 years of good experience. I've had data science / research scientist offers from consulting and big tech and the numbers were fairly similar. Granted though, the job is a lot more stressful in consulting. You also have the path to partner in consulting, whereas it is quite hard to make $1M+ in tech 10 years out of school.

A2- do you mind if I contact you? I’ve an upcoming DS interview at fb

OP - you may have found a glitch in the matrix we live in…Watch out!!

DS making $500k at faang are top quality talent and those teams are incredibly lean. Secondly, you’re supposed to be a consultant - I’m sure you’re smart enough to figure out why mbb will never pay DS the same as a Faang

@OP MBB doesn’t need the best data scientists. Why would you pay for something you don’t need? MBB also doesn’t need the best medical doctors, the best lawyers, or the best astrophysicists. Sure they may hire some people with doctorates, we bring a lot of value to teams, but you simply don’t need someone who knows how to write a complex neural network algorithm to make an ROI model in Excel. You just need someone who demonstrates good business accumen and the ability to learn how to build an ROI model quickly if asked to do so. Fwiw, data scientists have very different skillsets than strategy consultants. I don’t think it’s a question of “going for the best” in terms of intelligence, they’re just very different academic profiles. The two skillsets are not totally disjoint, but assuming someone with a PhD in e.g., computer engineering can sit in front of a F100 CEO is a potentially huge miscalculation. I’m speaking as someone who has a PhD in a field that puts people 90% of those who leave academia into data science

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OP people have mentioned to you that your numbers are off even in the sectors you’ve mentioned. If you think otherwise, then why don’t you switch to big tech and get those figures?

Can someone post numbers similar to levels(dot)fyi for MBB? Lots of people saying MBB has better trajectory but I don't see the data.

As a SWE/DS/MLE 100% advice you to go to tech. You’ll be paid better and valued a lot more. If you go to MBB consulting track you wouldn’t be using any of your skills. And if you go to the DS/MLE role you can only earn that much if you get to lead the practice which is insanely unlikely. 100% go to big tech.

Dude what the hell are you saying lol

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