Why does this 4-5th year think it’s okay to drop work on a 3rd year and then head off to drinks with a friends and leave me in the ditch? This is a regular occurrence. Is this normal? I’ve just started saying no to their work. Doesn’t feel like a team effort at all. More feels like they can’t be bothered.

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at
Highlighted IconHIGHLIGHTED

Is there a reason you can’t delegate to juniors, paralegal, project assistants or secretary’s and demonstrate your ability to team manage?

The most effective way of getting through big law painlessly is to delegate as much as possible.

like

As a general rule I wouldn’t take advice on management skills or ability to survive big law from a junior associate.

like

Obviously, it’s totally inappropriate for them to regularly delegate just to give themselves an early evening while you’re stuck working late. That’s very uncool.

But fwiw, I’d go against the grain of a lot of these other comments re: the propriety of them delegating to you overall. At my firm, being one year senior to someone absolutely entitles you to delegate to them. Second years delegate to first years. Third years delegate to second years. Very par for the course. Apparently this varies a lot between firms.

like

Yes, agree with you. A year or two above definitely gives you authority to delegate (at least at my firm). I delegate to 1st years all the time.

Recent IconRecent

No it’s not normal. A 4th year is only a year above you. I would never expect that a fourth year and a third year on the same team are in a boss-subordinate roll. If there is a case large enough I have two team members so close on year on the team and I give them a task I expect it’s getting done together and they are just splitting the work. A 5th/3rd gap there’s more leeway for orders being given, but not a dump the assignment and run out the door kind of leeway. Do your seniors know this is happening? Don’t be a tattletale, but is there a casual way to make it known?

like

Or play it off like I am working on x and wanted to just talk about my strategy or ideas with you….then, the other team member knows youre working on it. Also, at my firm, you can look at others’ time entries.

What I’m hearing is that the issue is not that a fourth year is delegating to you, it’s that they’re doing it last minute with no heads up. If that’s right I definitely think that’s bad practice

like

It’s just not a courteous way to operate

like

Is this the culture in the firm? Senior attorneys usually demonstrate behavior learned from higher up. No excuse but could be a reflection of the firm culture. I cannot stand when someone delegates last minute. Typically, they have known for weeks. This is a d*ck move.

like

Not at all. All the other seniors in the team, including the partners, are very much “everyone in the trenches together” types. I’ve stayed up countless long nights with the partners. Not once did the dump and run.

likehelpful

Also when you’re a 3rd year it’s an awkward position to be in because you’re not a junior anymore but arguably you’re not senior enough to be delegating work

like

Because you are only a third year and they are 4 to 5 year.

like

To the last part, that’s all of us.

like

I’m not going to lie, but (as a 2nd year who occasionally works with 3rd years) I don’t think that this is that abnormal. Sometimes the senior most associate will contact them and say can you get 2nd year (or 1st years) to handle, the third year asks me and if I can’t handle or if it’s something the 1st years can handle, I pass it on down the chain

like

Agree with A7 on this

like

I think in these situations there might be a bit more context than what you are aware of. I’m in M&A and there are regularly times when junior associates are under fire and seniors are taking the back seat (peak of diligence) and vice versa (push to negotiate a merger agreement). It doesn’t mean anyone is slacking, could be a normal division of responsibilities. In leanly staffed teams the 5th year could easily be working as a senior associate and the above would apply.
That said, maybe that’s not the case at all and the person is just inconsiderate/ unprofessional.

like

I have this person on Instagram. They literally post on their story what they’re doing, and it’s not work.

Might be a billing issue as well. I sometimes get asked to delegate to someone a year below me because client is cost sensitive and doesn’t want to see a 4th year doing more hours than a 3rd year on documents that either can draft. And after I delegate, I go for dinner with friends sometimes. It’s kind of creepy when colleagues stalk you on Instagram rhinking “can’t believe they went out while I had to work”. Yeah, everyone has a life….when there is work a person one year below can’t do and I’m working I don’t have the same “why is he drinking when I’m working” freak out. I’m usually happy that junior has some time off to relax and recharge

like

OP, as a senior, a lot of times I email the associate below me asking “can you do”, but that doesn’t mean I expect them to do it themselves or not delegate the work. I’m not going to tell that person how to most effectively manage their workload and I expect that person will delegate (or not delegate) the work as they see fit. What you don’t realize is that being the middle person in the chain has more cons than it does pros (I.e., if the person junior says they aren’t able to handle then the middle person is stuck with an outsized portion of the work).

Also, the fact that the person leaves their computer after they ask you to handle doesn’t imply disrespect — you don’t know what their week has been like, how late they’ve stayed up prior or how early they wake up. Maybe they had a 300 hour month last month and they want to take advantage of a couple nights away when they can. Everyone at any level will inevitably be the only one on their team that’s working at one point or another. If you really expect that person one year your senior to split the workload with you every time it requires a late night or an inconvenience, then you might want to consider switching to another firm...

like

Easy fix. Join them!

Just say nahh

More Posts

Any moms that made it to CD level and up? Looking for inspiration and how the heck you made it happen!

like

Anyone that’s done universal florIda with a toddler? Our LO is 20mo and I’m a huge fan of the park! I wanna do it again as an escape from this madness called work!
But not sure how it’ll work out-he’s super active and a pain for even a day at the mall, let alone a theme park!
Any advice for a nervous FTM?

like

MoFo Silicon Valley — thoughts?

like

Hello ,
I need some suggestions on tax saving .. my package is 20L+. Already investing in ppf,ulip is there any other way Wer I can save tax.

like

Hi Fishes,

How about the investment banking projects in HTC and the scope for the same.

Please advise guys.

I am looking to start contracting as I come from a delivery background where I have done a lot of business analysis, portfolio management, project management and program management.
How do I look for contracts?

like

Hello everyone,
Hope you guys are doing well.
My current CTC is 7 LP and I have altogether 5.5 years of experience (3 years in statutory audit field, which they consider as relevant. And 2 years in credit field)
So do you think the CTC I am getting as an experienced associate in pwc sdc is okay or should I ask for more ?
Qualification - B.com, MBA (Finance)
I will really appreciate your comments and suggestions
Thank you

like

Hi Fishes,

Attaching the snapshot

Post Photo
likefunny

How hard is it to switch from Deloitte Tax to Deloitte Consulting?

like

Anyone from Unisys..
Can you please refer me, I have the job id.
Thanks.

like

How many of your clients have asked you to work from home this week?

like

Found an internship opportunity at a VC fund, aspiring VCs can check it out

like

Can I use fruit candy as a pre-workout and on-foot refueling source for ultra running? I get the same boost of energy with a handful of Mike & Ikes as I do on a Gu gel, but it's a lot more affordable to use candy than a Power Gel, and the flavor is a lot more palatable in my opinion. My stomach prefers this approach too. Am I missing race-critical nutrients by doing this, or is it essentially similar with other gel fuels? Thoughts?

like

Anyone at Microsoft that can refer me to the Partner Enablement Program Manager position? I have 8+ years in supply chain, managing strategic supplier partners, project management and analytics. Thanks so much, open to other opportunities as well.

like

Deloitte Consulting Cloud practice is hiring. If anyone is interested in a referral. Please DM if interested with resume.

like

Anybody else hate photoshop? Lately, it’s just been a big pile of 💩.

like

Can anyone from VOIS confirm what was the last average hike % ?

like

Welp.

Time to ask: anyone have a solid list of recruiters who work with agencies? Looking to move my talents (biz dev/new business) to a new shop.

I appreciate your help in advance if possible!

like

Hi Ladies! Any gift ideas for my nephew who is 7? I was thinking about getting a tab cos he likes video games but then I’m not sure which to pick. Any suggestions?

like

Additional Posts in Law

If a partner puts both his and the associate name on a pleading without associate having worked on it or knowing about the said pleading, and the firm gets sanctioned (say rule 11 for instance), does it mean that the associate is one of the sanctioned attorneys? Like it affects the associate’s later pro hac vice or insurance applications where it asks whether associate has been sanctioned?

like

Have you ever asked your firm if you could transfer offices for personal reasons (eg to be closer to family)? What was their response? Any advice?

like

Good morning - tips on dealing with the “know it all client.” I represent an entity and one individual thinks they understand all legal issues simply because of news articles or friends stories. I try to redirect conversation by focusing on unique facts at issue but other techniques would be helpful.

like

Noticed a typo in a cover letter I sent out after the fact. The worst feeling, can anyone relate? Chances they will not notice?

like

How would you handle salary negotiation?

Class of 21. Took a job at a small general service firm in a tertiary market ~6mos ago because I wanted hands-on experience quickly. Compensation is ~$60k, which felt a little low but considering the low COL and the fact that I hadn't even been admitted to the bar yet, not bad.

How/when should I negotiate for an increase in compensation? My instinct is to ask for a salary bump to $80k around the one year mark.

I enjoy the firm and the work.

funny

ID attorneys - how do you deal with constantly “losing”? Asking for me.

like

Through a recruiter in early March I interviewed for a lateral position with a peer firm. I thought the interview went well and wrote thank you cards to everyone after the interview. (More below)

like

Not a Q but I'm worried that I annoyed the partner today. I asked him A LOT of questions cuz I'm a first year and don't want to screw up. I know I should group my questions so I don't keep going to him but what if the questions pop up cuz it pertains to new things that come up later? I can't really ask them all at the same time. I told him at the end of the day that I hope I didn't bombard him too badly and he just laughed and said it's okay. He's so nice I can't really tell if he meant it.

like

Are there any other firms that offer positions like Littler’s casesmart attorneys that hires laterals?

like

What’s a practical gift for someone starting law school? Any suggestions are much appreciated!

like

Anyone ever experience a firm significantly misrepresenting a position they hired you for? I recently took a position with a firm to practice a specific type of litigation. Turns out the firm only has about 5 cases in that field and they are all already staffed up. Now I’m stuck at a firm I barely like doing work that’s completely irrelevant to my experience and career goals, and I feel like leaving within a year is a bad look resume wise

likeuplifting

Can someone recommend the opportunities in law other than practicing (after passing bar) or support staff (not inclined to do). I have worked as a corporate lawyer oversees and working in environmental compliance for three years now in the US. I need some guidance how I can make a move. Would really appreciate some thoughts.

like

Thoughts on leaving a job due to poor management and communication? What level of oversight is normal in midlaw boutique litigation firms? I am a 4th year and starting to feel like I get zero feedback unless it's bad and am just left alone most of the time unless I harass the partner for some input. Then once he pays attention it's just beratement for not doing things the same way he would have. I need more experience with a partner who is present and available, am I being unreasonable?

like

Just started at new firm. One of the partners insists that every motion and memorandum submitted to judge also be submitted with printed copies of all cited materials. Was this ever common practice or is this person just crazy

like

Anyone have any stories where you thought you failed the bar exam but ended up passing? I’m a retaker anxiously waiting dc bar results. They’re out tomorrow.

like

Crippling anxiety

Maybe it’s the pandemic, maybe its the lack of social interaction, and inability to go out on the weekend. But lately I’ve been having tons of anxiety.

The firm is great. I’m being paid above market rate, no cut (yet), still have my perks, but these emails I get from one of the managing partners gives me anxiety. To be fair, I’m probably overreacting. But when I get emails like I’m disappointed, I have to rewrite this, oh this is wrong w this. I get super anxious and annoyed

like

This may be just a naive/dumb question, but how do you relax when you’ve got a really stressful file? I’m a junior and I’ve been putting in ~10ish billable hours a day recently, which is more than I’m used to. The evenings (post-8pm) are generally my time to decompress - read a book, watch dumb tv, whatever - but it’s been all work lately until 10 or 11pm and I struggle to go straight from work to bed. Any insight on what everyone else does?

like

Just realize I screwed up some research and came to the wrong result for a client, which the partner provided to the client as well. It became inconsequential because the client found something else more legitimate to make the same decision we advised him on, but I’m doing additional research on a similar issue and found statutory language to support a different outcome than what I had originally thought. I’m not sure whether to just let it go or talk to the partner about the additional

like

I’ve had a rough day today and it’s not even noon on a Sunday. This is one hell of a profession.

like

Interviewing with a boutique next week (moving from biglaw). What should I ask?

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the Fishbowl app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or