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^this view - coupled with the fact that everyone automatically assumes it should be the woman’s role unless otherwise noted is why we have no women with children in leadership roles.
We do have women with children in leadership roles though
C1 you’re completely missing his point. It’s literally right in the next sentence and you were too triggered to read it. Nothing factually incorrect with his statement either.
I have two kids. Mostly I’m just tired. Some of us have to break through and be the “firsts” if it is ever going to change. Raising kids is hard work. This job is exhausting. Dealing with constant judgement from peers and superiors who have a stay at home wife supporting them at home is mentally draining.... I don’t know what to tell you.
I don’t understand how that is controversial. Should I have said historically? What I said is a fact. Traditionally / historically, it is the woman’s role. That doesn’t mean it has to be (or should be).
I’ll tell you, I plan to sacrifice my career. When I’m ready to have kids, I plan to find a job that lets me work fewer hours, not travel, less stress, etc. so that I can raise my children.
I don’t want to be an MD or a Partner. I want to be a a Father. I think we often look down on women who have similar sentiment and I think that’s a shame.
Personally, I do feel that you have to choose between your career and your children. I think if you’re a woman who wants a high-powered career, then you need a husband who is willing to either stay home (ideal) or work a much less demanding job in order to care for the kids.
I really don’t see how anyone can have it all. I’m a man and I am quite happy to have a stay at home wife to raise my children. I recognize how much work it is and how valuable that is to children.
Traditionally, it is the woman’s role to stay home and raise the kids, but there is no reason that it can’t be the man’s role. However, I think it needs to be somebody’s role.
And deeply, deeply angry at the setbacks it feels like women with kids face and the double standards that exist. So angry. And as I get more experience in the corporate world I find myself getting angrier, and more existentially so. Maybe because my firm has almost no senior female leadership so I can’t face my fear or discuss. How do you stop or reconcile this anger, if you feel it at all?
Yeah, A1 had me until he got to “traditionally, it’s a woman’s role to stay at home.” Seriously, go F yourself.
The point is that in other industrialized (and more gender egalitarian) societies women and men share both child rearing and bringing in family income. The issue with our society is that we put all of our people in the situation where work is an all encompassing thing where you cannot have any outside responsibilities (children, hobbies, caregiver for aging parents) because we are required to give 💯 of our souls to our jobs.
This is the biggest issue facing starting a family. In more work life balanced countries you rarely hear this issue. It's because parents aren't finding it impossible to have two careers and have a family. These countries often do not have the income inequality we face in America either, so often times it is possible to live a nice middle class life without both incomes as well as you don't feel a sudden huge change in lifestyle.
If we stopped having to work a million hours a week, we'd have more time and energy for our children which in turn would cause less resentment.
I do not. I am a woman. I had my kid at 31 and made Partner at 33. Being a mother did not hold me back. Things are hard sometimes but if anything this job made me more prepared for this.
I would say this, having an SO who is truly your partner in life makes a huge difference as does your support system in work and life.
P1... That’s commendable! You are awesome!
My wife and I have one kid and one on the way. My wife blows me out of the water in terms of career. She wants to be very involved with the kids. We make it work because we are a team. She does way more than I do because I’m on the road all the time. Honestly I’m in awe.
This was a fascinating thread to read. There are a lot of posts related to this topic in the women’s bowl and the consulting moms bowl and the tone is very different. Some of the responses here (I’ll assume from men) really do show that we have a long way to go.
In my own experience (9 month old, working husband with long hours similar to mine) it is exhausting and it is unfair. I spent years before having a baby angry about what I was seeing around me because I knew one day I would experience this. And here I am. Maybe it’s gotten better but the improvement has been painfully slow.
I’m expected to do more at home, I’m judged for being “less committed” at work, I feel constant unrelenting guilt for being a shitty mom, shitty wife and shitty employee. On top of that, I can’t remember the last time I had any time to focus on myself.
Is it hard on my husband? Sure. He does a lot. But is he dealing with the judgment from stay at home moms, the double standards, the awkwardness of needing to leave an all-day client workshop several times to pump, the stink eye when he leaves at 5 to pick up our son from daycare and so many other things the moms on this thread have pointed out? Not so much. His career is right on track and when he does help out (and I use that word purposefully - he is helping, meaning it’s my job and he’s helping me out) he gets praise for being a great dad, for doing something that is an expectation of me.
So, OP, I’m right there with you. I’m fucking angry. I know I should channel that anger and pave the way, and I’m trying, but I’m tired and some days it’s a win just to get out of bed.
Men reading this, I encourage you to talk to your wives, to the women in your office, read the consulting moms bowl. Most of these things we’re pointing out don’t stem from malice, they stem from ignorance. Even those who point out your wives are superheroes (props to you) I guarantee they struggle too We need you to understand what we go through or nothing will ever change.
If having kids is important to you, then at some point you will have to decide what you want. You can have whatever you want, just not all at the same time. Ann Marie Slaughter caught hell a few years ago for saying this, but it's true.
Lol, wow - a nanny. Hahaha
10+ yrs at this and the conversation / fears have always been the same, yet nothing substantial has changed. Once an optimist, now a skeptic. Angry at myself for believing things would change in my life time.
I have 7-year old twins. I’m 45. I left it later to have kids specifically so I was more senior/tenured and that I could be in control of my career. It has worked. I have a TON of help (2 nannies, people who help with stuff like house cleaning, dry cleaning, food shopping etc), plus my husband is a golf pro which means he’s around in the winter and relatively flex in the summer if I’m away traveling, but I am also very involved in the kids’ lives. I have never missed a “big” thing of theirs and I am very clear with my teams what I can and cannot do. Now, there was a risk to leaving it that late to get pregnant- and yes, I’m very tired. But I have never not felt supported at work. Have had to be pretty ballsy about it tho.... it’s not for everyone for sure but it works for me.
I disagree with A1. My wife “took a step back” when we had number 1. Aka she got a 35% pay raise and didn’t have to travel. She works for other high powered women with kids, has amazing flexibility and still crushes it. Funny thing is, I pushed her to the role and helped her negotiate (she didn’t believe her worth). I have a daughter and one on the way and there is no better role model. People want to make excuses but anything is possible. Make it happen ladies!
I am an extremely pissed off female about this. I plan to work hard and go to the top to change this bullshit too... I did work way beyond my level for years, top performer, and in review sessions was passed over for promotions, bonuses, etc. while pregnant and when my kids were little, all while watching the male colleagues also having kids literally in the same rough timeline get promoted and make more than me, for the same work, often done in the same work space. This discrimination is incredibly real, and I am tired of it. It must stop now, I want the next generation of women to have a fair environment. What I have experienced is so far beyond unfair...
I think the real struggle is getting to a point at which it is as socially acceptable for a man to be a stay at home dad as it is for a woman to be a stay at home mom. Then women who want high powered careers should find it easier to find men who want to take care of their children (assuming they want children).
What I’m saying is I fundamentally do not believe that 2 people who work 80 hour weeks should have children. I mean, in a perfect world, we would retire before having kids!! How about that idea!
Sm1, smh. It isn’t really the point of this thread. That’s like piping in with “all lives matter.” This is about the disparity and inequity focused on the ramifications on women and how they have dealt. Please don’t detract from this important conversation. OP I face a bit of a different situation - have two step kids, but I don’t think I want my own. And worried society will judge me for that. Or even I personally will judge myself later down the line. That’s an entirely different conversation - all of it terrifies me. I am in awe of some of the rockstar women on this thread and who I am hearing husbands talk about. Very proud of what you guys have accomplished in what can honestly seem like an uphill treadmill.
It’s one thing to complain that women with kids have been limited in their careers because of the choice to have kids. It’s another to draw boundaries at work for women with kids in terms of expectations while continuing to expect more difficult work and hours from single people or those without kids. There as to be some sort of framework put in place that doesn’t punish anyone for any life choice or punishes them equally.