Rising Star
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No, it's indoctrination/grooming when teachers suggest to kids that they should respect people who look different from them or that it's okay if they make choices that don't fit an idealized 1950's view of American society.
Indoctrinating kids into fundamentalist Christianity isn't indoctrination. Just that other stuff.
Rising Star
Absolutely agree! How do you say INDOCTRINATION without saying INDOCTRINATION 🤦🏻♀️
I posted a portion of this in a different thread, but I feel that it is appropriate here too:
Well, in addition to having an MBA, I also have a BA in pastoral ministry. With that said, I think it is a terrible idea. Even if it were legal and appropriate, a questionable point in and of itself, it is still a bad idea. Most teachers to not have the training to present, what is, a complex theological system with knowledge and respect for all.
For that matter, the SEL feels the same to me. Most of the SEL programmes are trying to sell a set of "secularized" lessons that draw on various religious systems, which need to be taught as a real class, by qualified teachers, if it is to be taught at all.
The article says “It is said that there are close to 300 common-day phrases that actually come from the Bible,” however, there are other ways to teach these idioms. Further some of the things that people think are in the bible, like "the golden rule," are not in the bible. Yes, Matthew 7:12 is what most people think of when they think of "The Golden Rule." However, the actual words come from Buddisim where it is said, "Let this rule, unto you, be golden. . . "
It just is not a great plan to have unqualified people teaching religious classes. . . completely ignoring is it is a great idea to be teaching religious classes in the first place.
Thank you Kansas.
I am very religious, but I agree that church and state should stay separate.
It’s easier to say, “bring religion into the schools” to help students than to model “decent” human behavior. What of the Bible is going to be highlighted for these young students? Whatever is decided will most likely not be applied properly. The Bible is misquoted and misrepresented all the time.
The nastiness (slavery, adultery,etc) had to be written to teach the lessons given in the Bible. If the nastiness is the focus, the lesson is lost. Again, not all topics can be taught at the elementary level. In some, not until college.
My father tortured me growing up with his obsessions of reading different religious doctrine, but I appreciate it looking back and helps me understand others. The point is my parent taught me, not school.
Parents will fight because of all this uncertainity and speculation.
I’m not against the fun stories like Noah’s Ark, tower of Babble (pardon the misspelling), etc, but other fables such as Aesops and those stories from our various Native American cultures should also be considered. All or none. Grey areas get lawsuits.
So maybe states like Texas should figure out what their focuses will be and share with the parents before making Bible lessons required readings. If the lessons are cross-denominational, there will be more buy in.
Of course nonsense like this is unconstitutional. But the people doing it want the fight. Their long-term goal is the destruction of public education, and the more conflict and chaos they can bring into the public debate about schools, the better they consider that for their goals.
The exact words separation of church and state don't appear in the constitution.
However people falsely use the lack of literal words this as justification for forcing their particular brand of judeo Christian beliefs upon us.
In reality it is the essence and spirit of separation of church and state that is in the constitution:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." This line in our constitution prohibits our government from promoting, enforcing or mandating a religion or a god. The founders intended that phrase to protect us from tyranny.
Iran and Afghanistan are excellent examples of what happens when there is no separation between church and state.
So we Christians can’t teach a worldview that is as old as humanity itself and is in agreement with most historical understandings of life, but you liberals can teach the idiocy that girls can be boys and men can use the women’s restroom that was invented 15 minutes ago? Why are you so threatened by what conservative states are doing to reign in what they don’t want in their state? Why not be content indoctrinating your own students in your own liberal state?
Rising Star
Esset1- seems like it’s the conservatives who are the loud ‘I AM A CHRISTIAN ’ type who love to judge and shame the shit out of anyone and everyone that doesn’t fit ‘their’ bill. Why on earth are you a school teacher? 🤦🏻♀️
Right on que, Texas observes another state do something more "M'erica; F-yeah" and asks Oklahoma to hold our lonestar.
Rising Star
Not true. Teaching a non curriculum based religious content in public is a true waste of our tax dollars and is about control only. We sent our kids to catechism to learn about religion, bc that’s our choice. - get it out of public education.
What a joke it will be overruled in court.
Pro
In a competent court, obviously.
But then it'll get appealed. To SCOTUS. Which is neither competent nor honest, and likely to become even worse in the next four years.
The systems that are supposed to save us from this bullshit are in the hands of those responsible for this bullshit.
It’s only indoctrination if it doesn’t fit their rhetoric and purpose.
Does this mean Texas teachers are also allowed to teach other religious doctrines? Considering how intrusive religions in general have been in dictating people’s lives, some education about them has merit.
Rising Star
Great question ! This is a drain on our taxes too. Think about it, it will litigated all the way to whatever court they need! That legal bill is our legal bill WTF 🤦🏻♀️
Whatever happened with the Separation of Church and State? What about the students that are not Christian? Can their parents sue the school, state, and Superintendent for religious reasons???
what's the problem with the students that are not Christian?
Most of the comments crack me up. First and foremost, have you read the law or just watched the clip? Is the course optional (like electives in high school and college)? Is this course provided with parent consent since it is in elementary school? Have you read the Bible? The Old Testament contains history - wars, kings, slaves, etc., and such beautiful poetry. So much of this is true history and can be taught without even bringing up God. Look at this link, it states there are independent districts in Texas and can make their own decision,
https://www.kcra.com/article/texas-education-officials-optional-school-curriculum-bible-lessons/62999080
It is not considered indoctrination if it is offered as an elective course. Also, as long as they do not ban other religions or imply the Bible is the only form of acceptable religion they should be fine. They offer a prayer group at my school in the morning and they often pray at events. I ignore it and don't participate. No one has had anything to say about my lack of participation. Nor should they.
I’m going to start a spaghetti monster church elective then
Well the incoming government wants Christianity in public schools and also want to get rid of the Department of Ed. Its going to be a lot of things we dont want our taxes paying for.
Rising Star
I’m SO glad I retired, albeit due to an unhealthy and probably toxic amount of stress- worst yr on my career if 41 years (only 25 in l-12h). It really does work out in end.
With that said I live in Michigan and so Gretchen would shut that down and my super would fight tooth and nail against this. I worked w our super when I serviced her school as a school social worker/she was the principal and, before that she was a teacher at a different school. Swk /psych/OT/SLP/PT traveled in the district. I really like her.
Guyzzz!!!????This is nationalism and Project 2025. A little bit of Jesus JUST MIGHT help!??Smh
5 words. Separation. Of. Church. And. State…
Hellooooooo!!!!Works at Yahoooo!!!youhooooo!!!
Have you forgotten the Code of Teacher Ethics!!
You are smart!—You are kind!!!—-You are special!!!
In Texas and other similar states, they are okay with "indoctrination" if it's their ideas. Just like they are okay with authoritarianism if they are in power.
Rising Star
Control! They getting high on controlling others, it’s like a drug!
LET EVERY MAN BE A LIAR & GOD’S WORD BE TRUE!!!!!!!!HE IS THE ANSWER FOR THIS WORLD!!!!#1NATIONUNDERGOD❤️🤍💙
Rising Star
CP1- Thank for the confirmation that it’s actually INDOCTRINATION - the process of teaching someone to accept a set of beliefs without question. It can also refer to the act of imposing ideas or beliefs on people in areas that should involve individual choice and decision-making.