What happened to Kathleen Kim is honestly sad and tragic. May she rest in peace. Big Law is a hostile place to POC at times. I hope her family and partner receive justice. She deserved better.

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at

Sometimes, staffing at biglaw has no relationship to one’s competence. I myself have been pushed out of the work of a client that i built from next to nothing to a major client for the simple reason that i have an accent and not as a smooth a talker as a couple of white guys one of whom i would not trust any legal work because he is just incompetent. I recall being asked to write an appeal brief for the USPTO on a complicated case because of my superior skills and the importance of the case (this was a patent case) only for the partner to ask one of the white guys to argue— a competent guy but one they couldn’t trust to write the brief. The oral argument lasted no more than handful of minutes because the administrative judges have already made up their minds and asked him if he has anything outside of the brief that he wants to add. When he fumbled around a little because of the disruption (as anybody would’ve), they ended the hearing and reversed the examiner’s decision based entirely on my arguments. Guess what the client was told? The white super star won it all and no one at the firm bothered to correct the record. That is your big-law. That was the beginning of the end of my relationship with that firm. It was in 2020. I looked for a job for over two years and then decided i have had it with them and quit without a job. So, i will never assume that she wasn’t competent.

likehelpful

NEP1–I’ve seen similar patterns.

One issue is a bias against having POC and/or women in the courtroom. Partners have even indicated they don’t want to put a diverse attorney in front of the judge because they think the judge is biased. This argument essentially excuses the partner’s own biases and stereotypes—that POC will appear as “outsiders,” women will seem “less confident” or “too aggressive,” etc.

like

Why are you assuming that she was staffed for diversity reasons? Could she have been the best in her field? Your assumption is part of the tragedy. That uphill battle where you never get the benefit of the doubt is part of this tragedy. I have been in places where i knew (and every there knew) that i was the best in what I was discussed. Yet, people would defer to some other guy just because he is white. I can list dozens of times in my career that people made assumptions about me that they would never make had i been a white dude. Please do not assume she got anything because she is poc. Before i assume that she had gotten anything in law practice because of the color of her skin, i would be more comfortable assuming that more than half of the white men you see in high places have no business being there except for being a white man.

like

Apparently she was unable to find a new biglaw job so she wasn’t staffed on anything in the last two years.

Big clients, like those that would have antitrust matters, often ask that their matters are staffed with diverse talent.

like

I didn’t know her but I see that she was a big law antitrust lawyer in DC and involved in the ABA antitrust section. The firm’s clients would have been big companies that are incentivized to staff matters with diverse talent, and there are very few young women of color in the field. I’d like to know more about what happened at Winston & Strawn in NYC when she was there from 2016-2021 was it a partner that discriminated against her who was sleeping with another partner? It sounds like she made a claim and took a settlement Id like to know more about what happened.

As for her tragic ending, I don’t think we can say that she wanted to work, no one “took a chance” on her and she became hopeless. That might have been it but no one can know. Just goes to say that mental health is a precious thing and we need to support ourselves and each other, check in on each other, and ask for help when it’s needed.

like

Related Posts

Is 36 too late to join IB as an associate? Alternatively, can stay in my industry (not banking) as manager.

like

I personally feel Virtusa is going through some positive changes after BPEA acquired it.

like

"We hear your responses to our anonymous pulse survey, and we understand you all overwhelmingly think our team structure org needs to change. We understand it's not necessarily working well—but here's why we're NOT going to change it."
Why ask us if you really don't care?

likefunny

For those who switched from audit to advisory: what are some of your job responsibilities? What kind of advisory service are you in? Did you like the change from audit? What are the disadvantages?

like

Anybody work at citrin in BAS? howd the wlb there

like

Considering going for the CFE. What was your study plan for it and how long did it take?

like

Anything fun going on tonight? I have friends in town I’d love to take them salsa dancing / to see live music. Latin dancing / music preferred but open to anything 💃

like

How is Applied ai course to learn Data science and machine learning?

like

I’m leaving the public school and I’m trying to find a job that would be good for the experience I have.

likesmart

What are the basic things to keep in mind or to keep it ready before moving to Australia?

Hi Guys,
Help needed!!!
I got offer from HCL for the position of Lead consultant with(23.49 fixed + 3.51 variable). I have 8 yrs of experience. I want to know if this position is same as Team/Tech Lead ? As in my current organization I am working as Team Lead. And also how is job security and work life balance in HCL?

like

Has anyone ever built a voice of the customer program? Want to hear about your experience: processes and tools put in place, stakeholders involved, how to socialize findings. Thanks!

like
like

December is typically slow due to EOY/holidays. How to maintain momentum when losing motivation and don’t want to stall until Jan?

like

Is anyone finding seasonal work for the holidays, even part time? I'm considering it. Would be a blow to my pride but that's becoming less and less important as I slowly spend my savings. Best ways to get over your own ego and take what's on offer?

uplifting

Anyone here works at Brillio? How good is the company for opportunities?

like
like

Hi ,

Can you help me to locate where are TCS office for SAP do they have in pune ...is there any office in magarpatta..

Thanks in advance

I am looking for a new job at the end of a long career. I have excellent experience in IP and Supply Chain Management. I've been fortunate to be in a high-paying position in the Los Angeles area and I rarely see comparable positions posted. The comparable positions at my company are filled by one of the big executive search firms. Any recommendations for finding the rare executive-level legal positions or for landing on the radar of the big executive search firms would be much appreciated!

like

Additional Posts in Attorneys of Color

Have you ever joined a firm purely based on how many POC would be in your practice area?

likefunny

Has anyone found success developing business or building their book? Specifically businesses (not individuals)? Looking for new ideas to get clients in the door.

like

Not legal-related but: thoughts on A Jazzman’s Blues? I loved it. Been a while since a movie has stayed on my mind long after it ended, like this one has. Shocking Tyler Perry wrote it. “Paper Airplanes” is a hauntingly beautiful song.

like

Hey all, I’m starting a new job soon (in 2 weeks to be exact), but I haven’t been contacted by the firm. Should I be concerned?

like

Did anyone from your past tell you you wouldnt make it as a lawyer? Did you ever rub it in their face later that you in fact did?? 😂

like

Thoughts on whether DC or NYC is a better place to be as an attorney of color?

like

What album can you listen to with no skips?

like

Might be a silly question but I will throw it out there. Anyone have any tips on best practices to preserve a silk press overnight? Currently have silk pillowcases but wrapping always ends up a fail.

likehelpful

Have you ever been told off by an older attorney of color? We have one Black partner at our firm and in conversation with him this morning he told me I should work on sounding and looking "more professional" and not let my "tone" or "bad attitude" get in the way. I don't think I've ever had a bad attitude at work, and whatever "tone" I'm speaking in it's my normal one. As a Black woman I just feel super weird about it and kind of sad.

like

What is the starting Salary for entry level insurance defense attorney in NYC area?

like

How do I professionally decline a second interview? I know for sure I don’t want to work at the firm.

like

how does anyone actually bill 8.5 hours a day?? Even on my most productive days I can only hit 6, 6.5.

like

Today is the first day of the new work week! What are your goals for this week?

like

I handleda very difficult and convoluted succession for a black family. My client was astute and intelligent. We got along great. His family was difficult. Willfully ignorant.

Part of the succession dealt with clawing back $450,000 in insurance proceeds that a niece fraudulent received from the decedent by making herself the beneficiary on policies. A separate attorney was hired to handle that part before I was hired to handle all other matters, including settling a $500,000 debt with the...

like

Does anyone know what the dress code is for the upcoming CAALA Trial Skills seminar? Do people usually wear suits or is it business casual? Thank you!

like

I’m a newly barred attorney in Atlanta, Ga and I need two things: (1) a mentor who has time to be a mentor; and (2) a job opportunity. I am open to being a staff attorney or junior associate. CAN YALL HELP ME PLEASE?!?

like

Any one here based out in the Middle East? If so, what's your experience. Would you recommend it. I am 32F - African Descent planning to relocate to the UAE.

like

Are y’all finding your white male bosses to be incompetent as hell or is just me? And they will milk you for all your brilliance and try to squeeze every ounce of labor out of you.

like

Starting at a new firm, What can I do to leave a good first impression?

like

Someone on LinkedIn expressed disappointment about the lack of diversity from the big law firms in TX that were posting pics of their summer associates. A managing partner commented that he thought the post might be about a pic he posted (12/14 SAs were white). He tried to defend this by saying that they had LGBT and socioeconomic diversity. The fact that he recognized that his pic might be part of the problem says it all. Law firms need to do better. Sorry, I just wanted to rant.

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal