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I’m not surprised. Most ppl enter MBB with =< 4 yrs of experience so MBB and the standard bs about how they are excellent will be all they know.
If you want someone with work and life experience, feel free to DM me. I’m 40 and have been at BCG only 6 yrs ... no “direct to EM” 😊
You’re mistaken. That all changed about 10-15 years ago, as did BCG. The are McK practices that ONLY recruit experienced talent with 10+ yoe for Asc level. BCG and McK are on par with mixed levels of experience.
When your only attempting to hire a certain type of person with the right pedigree and specific job experience I’m surprised that your surprised the process doesn’t garner the results your seeking. Lol When I was 5 years out of undergrad I co-owned my own small business with $1m+ in revenue, no pedigree, no fancy corporate name, but I knew more about business at 25 then the people your trying to hire at the same age. Expand your scope, find the people you normally wouldn’t consider, I would bet you’ll be very surprised at the work ethic and abilities they bring to the table.
McKinsey is trying to be as meritocratic as possible
I’m not sure what you’re firm does, but those fast track EMs are the cream of McK, for consulting and probably not much else.... they’ll probably get 750+ gmats but not be great at other things. So really depends what you’re expecting them to do... why aren’t they self aware that they wouldn’t be good at the responsibilities you’re requesting is a whole different story related to their experience of being the top 10% of McKinsey and corresponding ego/arrogance
I think that managing in consulting, particularly at a place like McKinsey, sets you up to fail pretty hard in a lot of other organizations.
Find me a normal company in any industry where your subordinates all come from top tier schools and are willing to work almost unlimited hours.
I agree that people who only have consulting experience have unrealistic expectations of what they can do in industry. Just because you managed in consulting does not mean that you can manage in PE or manage a finance, marketing, or operations team in industry.
That happens in the US only. We don’t have direct to EM path in Europe.
The way it should be...
Imagine being a client with one of these 25 y.o. running the engagement. Though the AP might be 27 and the Partner 30 so it's just par for the course.
I'm not a big fan of DTEM, but let's at least be honest that having a 25 YO EM, a 27 YO AP, and 30 YO Partner on a team doesn't happen.
I have noticed similar thing at my firm. These kids think they are gods gift to the business and they are smart but they don’t really have any experience (?). Waiting and open to be proven wrong but don’t see it.
Hiring is for Associate. Direct to EMs have not done well in the process and constantly ask if they can join at the VP level, which they are definitely not qualified for. From my perspective, I don't think McKinsey is doing them any favors by promoting so early. IMHO Some skills just take time and experience to be acquired.
Yea I’m starting to EM but was well aware when recruiting that it would be for ASC roles. Joining a family office in the fall
Are you hiring them for PE associate roles?
I thought it was common to only have 2-3 years of experience.
Mentor
Assume you’re recruiting them for associate roles? I’m a BA starting to EM now but leaving for UMM in a few months. It’s just part of the path these days you can make EM as fast as slightly under 2 years (fastest in my class was 1+10) up to 4-5 years out of UG. Doesn’t directly correlate to PE. These are people who crushed it at McK and are usually in one of two buckets - either an all around rock star or just very good at a specific thing in consulting in which case not great for PE asc roles.
Direct to EM folks are fantastic. I know a few of them - incredibly well rounded, smart, well spoken, etc
Uhhh no they’re not
I think there’s a possibility based on some of your replies that you’re just peeved that these EMs don’t want a title (and possibly even salary) cut to work in PE...
I work in PE on the investment side and can tell you for associate roles the DTEM are the types of people I would prefer (eg. Laser focused, robotic to a sense, end goal oriented, 1-0 binary types etc.). But I do see your point on the life experience component, obviously managing stakeholders/people in a consulting firm (who are intrinsically motivated) vs. Elsewhere (likely to be intrinsically fed up with the working world viewing what they do as a job not a “career”) they could lack the “life experience” to execute such change / interacting with incompetence- however as an Associate at a PE firm (even in OPS) you have a couple layers before you to learn from.
I haven’t met DTEMs that ask for a VP role like OP has claimed to have come across...to me that would be incredibly silly and lack self-awareness for even the market. Most of them realize that they are incredibly lucky to even be interviewed DESPITE being consultants (why MBB when I can easily get one of the hundreds of GS/MS kids?)...there’s a very clear totem pole in PE that most are aware of (I’ve done both IB and MC so definitely more inclined to give consultants a shot)
This is mostly why this post come across as bitter to me. I was definitely not a “wonder chosen kid” when I was younger but would appreciate the skills these kids bring so long as they don’t think they’re god’s gift to mankind which some of them do (my job to sniff out at the interview)...and others very clearly understand that even at their levels promotions and early promotions can be more about politics/luck than actual ability.
Are you trying to recruit them for Associate roles?
Subject Expert
What roles are you hiring for?
It was a measure the firm started to get more high performing BA’s to stay. After two years as a BA high performers can get bumped to the EM role, on pace with post grad hires
McKinsey is giving them a tremendous development opportunity by letting them step up internally. Maybe for exit opps it doesn’t help, but I can assure you I’ve seen BA->EM who deliver just as high quality work as ASC->EM at other clients. It makes sense that they’d be less equipped to handle a VP role because that role requires experience beyond their McKinsey EM experience like B school and life in industry which BA->EM don’t have. McK is the only job they’ve ever had and only job they’ve had to develop a skill set for, and it’s naive to think it develops every skill set.
Out of curiosity, what is the skill set they lack most often?
Skills involving the adept removal of the cranium from rectum.
Have interviewed a few DTEM at my fund too and I’ve been impressed mostly. If they asked to come as VP, would be an automatic dinger as well...should be quite obvious you’re coming in as an Associate (Senior Associate post MBA)
I will say for the take home/48-hour tests, consultants in general are better at structuring/communicating their thesis (irrespective of DTEM). Bankers are obviously better modelers but not by that much!