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Yeah, sadly this doesn’t work under capitalism. Capitalism survives on perpetual growth and increasing profits. It does not align with being responsible with resource use, equality, or prioritizing anything but growth and profit. And, this is the core of why all the things we do to be more sustainable, reduce emissions, etc. don’t actually solve the problem. We would need an entirely new global economic system and people will fight like hell to prevent that bc all of our lives, livelihoods, and identities are dependent on that system.

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Capitalism and our lending system is fueled by growth. You won’t lend money if you expect 97% back. Not disagreeing with the premise but the current system runs on perpetual growth.

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That's a valid point you made

Degrowth sounds scary. Sobriety might be more palatable. It is more a frame of mind and taking a bit of distance from mindless consumerism. And yes it will require capitalism rules to evolve and being adapted/rewritten, but this is doable, the rules of global economy have changed in the past and will in the future. I hope we will collectively be able to realise this and adapt before being constrained to do so by the changes in our environment. In short I believe that it is coming whether we like it or not, so let’s make it as soft a landing as possible

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That’s pretty important… and how do we convince wall street of the importance of degrowth? I think only a popular revolution would do it…

Sounds pretty defeatist, not sure how that outlook solves anything. Didn’t say it was easy, and EVs is a dramatic example, there are other decisions that can be made that are just as budget friendly as alternatives.

I could equally say your perception on change through “popular revolution” is naive, but more respectful conversations solve problems.

Im just being a realist. Wall Street is going to follow the money, therefore until sustainable companies can meet others on price, and until the value of that sustainable option can be better communicated (buy that one great quality sustainably made shirt for $40 instead of 4 for $40 at Kohl’s etc etc) then it’s probably not going to change. You can’t have a social revolution when half the people in the US don’t even believe climate change exists, so reframe your strategy.

Forget taking about capitalism… try selling this to the average person in an advanced economy.
There’s no such thing as a rich , low energy economy. And current low carbon technologies have the feature of being both expensive and far less energy dense than fossil fuels.

The people won’t go after the banker - they’ll go after the person telling them to get used to being poor and shut up.

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SM1, please say more. That’s a bold statement and I’d like to hear you thinking behind it.

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