Why are people in big law so inauthentic? I’m not even talking about arrogant people, but like sometimes it feels difficult to have even basic conversations with people at my firm (big law firm)

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at
Highlighted IconHIGHLIGHTED

Many define themselves as being a biglaw lawyer at firm [X], and that has become their identity. They no longer define themselves as a son or daughter of God, husband/wife, father/mother, etc. because they have often sacrificed relationships and spirituality in pursuit of money.

I think many partners, especially heads of departments and practice groups, often exhibit such a lack of leadership acumen because they are approaching their career from a position of perceived weakness due to deeply rooted insecurities. This causes them to blame others for the things they find lacking in their own life, and they seek to control anything they can to try and make up for it. This includes workflow and career trajectory for the more junior folks in their group.

This phenomenon certainly isn’t unique to big law, but I think the unique pressures of big law exacerbate the issues.

likehelpful

This. And certain practice groups are worse than others. Some “partners” (even with equity), given the nature of the work, don’t really bring in new business. They’ll rationalize (and some firms outright say) that “oh there are all different kinds partners!,” but I think this causes further mental/emotional tension that fuels the inauthenticity.

Because there are sharks in the water and anything you say or do can be held against you. It’s not a situation that breeds authenticity.

likesmart

Very very well said.

Recent IconRecent

Billable hours steal your soul

likefunny

And sometimes to two clients at once. Don’t lie, you know you’ve done it. :-)

like

Your coworkers are not your friends. Move accordingly. I just want to get my work done and go home to the people and communities I care about.

likesmart

6ish? Some of the colleagues who I met as a junior are some of my best friends to this day, probably at least partially because we worked together practically every day until midnight-ish.

like

They have fully bought into the “matrix”. The job and their career are their whole lives and personality and they lack any real depth to even have an authentic relationship. I agree with the others that point out that they’ve severed their connection with God as well as humanity in furtherance of career progression, prestige, and wealth. I realized this after becoming a father and am so glad I left private practice instead of sacrificing my family like so many people around me did/were doing.

like

You can get it back - but you have to want it.

like

I don't think its just big law. I think it's the whole industry. There are so many toxic things about it. You must be perfect all the time but no one wants to teach you how to be an attorney or about all of the unspoken rules in this profession. If you make a mistake or struggle at all, you're told to hide it or you are mocked behind your back.

It's easier to just keep your walls up and present a completely fake version of yourself at work.

likehelpful

I think for me it depends on the firm. I’ve worked at a number different firms. Many of which were cliquey and unfriendly or just bitchy. It wasn’t until I came to my current firm that I found coworkers and Attys I couldn’t be my authentic self with. With whom I could laugh, joke, cry and just be part of a close team. I would t give that up for the world.

like

Some people just deliberately make other people’s lives miserable and pretty proud of doing this.
Dogs are always dogs. Human beings, not always.

like

Because people in power made me fearful to lose my job after being laid off twice and so now I smile and nod and play the game while actively planning my exit lol

funnylike

Most of the attorneys I know are so wired into the grind they’ve simply lost their humanity.

like

I try to be friends with people I work with. I work a ton and am always “on” which hinders my ability to maintain friendships outside of big law. Maybe others are better at it but I can’t for example make plans and deal with always having to cancel them because something at work comes up that never feels like it can wait. So… I do my best to enjoy social connections when I can get them. I know it sounds a little sad and maybe it’s my own inability to balance it whereas perhaps others can, but for me it really puts a premium on forming friendships at work.

like

9 times out of 10 it 100% can (and should) wait. The only reason “it cant wait” is entirely artificial— because the person who thinks it cant has wrapped themselves up in their identity as “BigLaw” and not a dad/mom/husband/wife/friend (and they need to justify their absurd hourly rate by being “responsive”). It’s peak inauthenticity.

like

I used to work for Snell & Wilmer. The culture was totally manufactured and based around appearances and upholding the status quo. Also, people attracted to biglaw are all about the money, not about real justice, the fight, being a pillar of strength for the underdog. You want to meet real people, I suggest the public sector or firms that serve individuals and the downtrodden. Just my thoughts, from a non lawyer (and nobody).

like

No wonder i got laid off

like

Why is that not ideal?

Biglaw attorneys are barely sentient beings. Just leave ASAP before you become like them permanently

like

I never had that problem, OP. I got on with certain people, and not others. It’s a professional work environment so I never expected to get really close to anyone. A few that I still talk to today, but as in non-professional like, real friends are few and far between.

I haven't had that experience. Sure, there are fake people everywhere and you'll run into some. First, you need to gain trust then after awhile you can have full, real conversations. My experience includes the Managing Partners and Executive Committee level and extending to all levels "down" to the mailroom.. Maybe I was lucky but I've been at 3 big firms. I've found less authentic people at smaller firms but even within those walls there were a couple regular people. Let them get to know you slowly. It might take time as there are cycles to everyone's stress and daily output.

June Cleaver?

Related Posts

That kid is my fucking spirit animal

Post Photo
likefunny

The week of my wedding, my husband (PL SQL Developer 4 yoe) was laid off. That was a couple of weeks ago. Luckily I'm still bringing money in as a software engineer, but I'm looking for advice on how to support a partner who has been laid off. Ultimately I think we will be ok, but I know he's hurting / stressed / and could use a supportive partner.

likehelpful

Anybody here tagged in Wipro yahoo project !?

like

Hi All, I am currently a Data Analyst with 1 year of experience and pursuing a masters in Computer Science (expected to graduate 5/2023). I am looking to transition into an entry Data Scientist role (preferably remote or Philadelphia, PA). Can someone refer me or let me know who is hiring?

I can provide my resume if needed.

How many folks here have gone from data science into ML? And how many folks here have gone from data science into product management, or want to? Would love to hear some views here about career paths for data science people.

like

Does anyone here have experience building product analytics? I am the first product analyst in my team and I work with approximately 6 PMs. Any help is appreciated

like

Sending love to everyone today ❤️

like

Anyone currently working at Peloton and able to provide a reference for a Senior Product Manager role? Thanks!

like

Healthcare isn’t for me anymore. Looking for something less stressful. Has anyone left, and are you happy? I would love some advice and direction to a new career :)

likesmarthelpful

Been in a job for 6 months and seeing that it’s dead end. Start looking now, or wait until I hit one year? I have one 10-month agency gig on my resume, but have been at my other jobs 2-3 years.

like

Hi Team,

How much can expect for Solution Architect role in top tier companies of Netherlands and Germany location.

I have 12 years of experience.

What is the most you spent on at-home office furniture and do you hate yourself for it now that you're returning to work?

like

Hello all,
As a SWE at @
Microsoft, how easy/hard is it to collaborate on research with Microsoft Research? I’ll be joining Microsoft soon but I am also interested in AI research and have published a few papers. Microsoft

like

Who else trains legs on Monday ?

like

Is it safe to join CISCO? I have heard the layoffs happens there yearly.

like

Can anyone send me invites/codes to the EY and KPMG bowls?

like

Any new joiners for sep15th , I'm joining as Level 9. Can the day 1 be at office? I am located in Manchester and interested to spend my day 1 in office.
But got to know, it is virtual onboarding

like

Hi folks,

I will be relocating to Banglore in next 6 months.
My office is in Bellandur.
Which area is nearby also if any good society which I should consider.
Budget is around 18-22k

like

Hi all! I’m looking to start consulting for design systems work. Freelancers, I am curious what sorts of admin documents do you prepare for your client during the whole process? For example what type of contracts, statement of work, etc. Thanks!

like

Additional Posts in Law

Does anyone know the starting salary for Jackson Lewis in the firm's Connecticut office, as well as the billable hours requirement?

like

What kind of professional development/marketing-focused seminars/webinars/etc. has your firm offered that you found helpful?

like

How long did you have to wait from last round interview until offer? (Public sector)

like

Any thoughts on Phillips Lytle? If you could please provide insight on culture/billable requirements? Thank you.

like

Shout out to @nonequitypartner. We see you. Keep up the good work, and pls fix, thx.

likefunnysmart

Idk, maybe it’s time we bring these engineers and techs down. If my 🧠 links to a 💻 , all of my non-billable work will come to light. 😤

Post Photo
like

Any insight on working as a staff attorney at Sidley as far as pay, growth, hours, etc.? I had someone reach out to me about a staff attorney role there and just want to hear opinions.

like

How competitve is a US district court clerkship?

like

What is everyone’s: (1) billable hours this year; (2) practice group; (3) year; and (4) size of law firm?

like

Anyone at Pryor Cashman have intel on firm culture, work/life balance, and comp?

like

Best divorce lawyer in NYC?

like

Does anyone else work as in-house for government? Local? Provincial/State? Federal?

Have a call on Friday with the CEO of an environmental entrepreneurship non-profit. It could lead to a professional opportunity and maybe even billable work I can refer to my firm down the line. I’m going in with an open mind but little concrete information on his entity and goals and ways I could get involved. What questions would you ask such a person?

like

How to switch practice areas? I’ve been in immigration for 3 years now and need a change. How do you convince employers you’re a good fit for a role you don’t have any experience with?

like

Entering 3rd year at mid size firm in SE doing ID. I like my firm but really dont like the partner i exclusively work with and am going to put in notice. Do i tell the partner i work with first or the managing partner?

like

How hard is the path from lit to GC?

like

Anyone know when Ch. 7 BKs must close by? Is this changed by when there are adversary proceedings (alleged fraudulent transfers made to a bank for CC payments)? Asking for my friend who is unfortunately involved bc of his parents, who are the debtors (he isn’t a defendant or a debtor in this, but the payments were made to a CC in his name—a CC he didnt know was opened in his name).

Its in Texas, and the initial BK filing was made about 23 months ago. TIA!

like

What productivity hacks do you employ? I like to shut off my email for 25 min intervals to focus on real work. It’s like a sprint of focus without being “unavailable” too long.

like

Second year associate here. How should I deal with the one partner in my practice group who seems to exclusively give me lousy assignments that we’ll never get paid for? I get great work from everyone else.

like

For those of you required to be in office- do people use the phone and email to contact you or do they still come by in person? People in my office seem not to understand how the phone works...

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal