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Does anyone have any insights on what a typical Sr. Associate Director makes at Boehringer Ingelheim? I have a range of 170-180k which I think is fair but don’t want to be underpaid. Also, any information regarding retirement planning or medical/dental benefits would be helpful. Haven’t gotten much out of HR. Thanks in advance!
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As someone from a larger boutique who regularly competes with Trinity, here are my heavily biased perspectives:
- glorified market research shop parading as a consultancy
- and with that, super cheap - feel like trinity will cost 50-60% of what we do for same team same time, and this is often their foot in the door
- all of the above leads to deliverables that are really rough. Gaps in accuracy. Limited if any implications from a strategy perspective. And teams with less horsepower and problem solving capabilities. You get what you pay for.
- constantly trying to create off the shelf project/product types with weird branding that lack any real bespoke strategic thinking (just a different business model to me than true strategy consulting)
Tends to clean up with the cheaper clients and those with strict, tight market research budgets. Tends to need repeating / correcting later. Have been hired twice in last six months alone (at 2x the price) to basically re-do their work when banks/investors have been skeptical.
So yeah I view them really negatively as destroying value and eroding price points and generally casting a negative glow on boutiques more broadly.
The stagnant employee pool does line up well with the discount rates - points to under-utilization and willingness to discount to get work.
Other life sciences firms (both LEK and a number of quality boutiques) are sold out right now with a backlog, so Trinity’s stagnant staff and discounting are all consistent with my observations on the product and business model.
Oh and they have hired a number of our people recently, and I can say 100% of them have been folks with limited problem solving chops who basically stalled out in our consulting model and we’re told as much. And those folks love to talk about how much better WLB is at Trinity - which is a direct reflection of the commodity market research nature of the work, which they honestly are better suited for in most cases.
So my heavily biased lens is, they are a weak weak player. Sorry if too brutally honest.
Also an interesting assessment on EBITA relative to employee count. It’s a fair point, but considering that most of our headcount growth has been both inorganic and investment in technology/data offerings vs traditional consultancy offerings it will skew that analysis. The estimate is something like 70-80% of revenue is currently driven by 300 employees in the core business, with high projected growth for the new business units
For reference, just about every pharma consulting firm is growing right now.
If they aren't, then they're probably experiencing significant problems internally
Mentor
@P1, while I agree with some of the points you raise, it seems that you have lost credibility by making claims that range from subjective at best to demonstrably false. In order of the bullets you jotted down:
- "Market research shop vs. strategy": highly subjective and project dependent, also not a clear dichotomy. We do a ton of both as well as combos. Where do you think strategy comes from...thin air?..it is informed by market research
- "50-60% lower in price": As someone who has friends at CV, Putnam, HA, and the like and has a general sense of how we all price projects...this is just outright false. So check your facts on that
- "Deliverable quality": I agree to an extent in terms of aesthetics but not on the accuracy or strategic implications. Refer to the above two points address "you get what you pay for"
- "Weird branding and not bespoke": Highly highly subjective on the first point. On the second, not sure how you grade the bespoke-ness of your projects but no one is reinventing the wheel or each engagement - that would be plain silly. We seek to use the most effective tool/strategy to answer the question at hand, sometimes those are adaptations of past approaches, other times they are entirely new ways to think of a problem
The rest of your "rant" is largely opinion, which you are entitled to, so I'm not going to try to respond to that. But I will say that it sounded a little salty.
Anyway, good luck!
Mentor
Point taken, SA1 - perhaps got a little carried away there 😊
P1 - Let me guess that you’re from ZS?
OP - Feel free to DM
It’s mainly inorganic growth but overall a good firm with good exit opps into big pharma
Heard good things about trinity
Like C1 said growing a lot but in line with others. They are also PE backed so wouldn’t be surprised if they thought about transacting again in the near future given the market environment (and the recent acquisition).
They do similar work as the other boutiques - maybe less on the bigger strategy and more at the asset level but overall similar. I’ve heard there can be PD stagnation at the Manager level but that’s second hand
It’s good money!
SC1 does it include/exclude signing bonus?
What’s the difference in responsibilities between Senior Consultant and Manager?
Depends on project and team. Usually the same role - wouldn’t have both on the same project