Who here thinks John Snow and Daenerys are going to bang/politically marry and take over the world?

Daenyrs is an aunt I think to Jon snow

If Jamie and Cersei can fuck then why not?

Their motivations are to protect their people. Davos even made a comment about it. If you think Jon wouldn't consider marriage to get more soldiers and dragons to fight the dead, you don't understand the motivations behind the characters

Jon and Dany have totally different world views and core values. People who think this should happen seem shallow to me and don't understand the motivations behind the characters

Pwc1 you have to be the most condescending person I've ever seen on fishbowl. In case you forgot, this is just a show and these are all predictions. Your predictions or point of view are no more valid than anybody else. Take a walk, relax, and try again...

Seriously. I've read all the books and watch the shows. Calm your tits PwC. I know what I'm talking about

A2, I don't think you understand who Yara is. It's not like the Ironborn are a quiet, peaceful group of sailors and then Euron led a rogue group of them to do bad things. The Ironborn culture is based around piracy, pillaging, rape, etc. Yara led troops in committing these acts, and you can see that's why she's a leader and her men respect her. Remember when Theon tried to be an Ironborn and anytime he tried to be merciful or level-headed his men almost mutinied. If Yara told her men to go home and not pillage/rape/etc they'd kill or exile her and pick a new leader.

The same is true of the Dothraki. They followed Khal Drogo's orders, until he demanded they not rape a select few women. As soon as he demanded decency, he was challenged. They follow Dany not out of love, or because they were freed (like the Unsullied) but because she showed power by killing their Khals and having a dragon. She's leading them to a bloodthirsty conquest, it's not like they are any different than they used to be.

I think you're the naive one to think that Dany can use these groups to conquer the seven kingdoms and then as soon as they've won, that they will give up their entire ways of life? How are you going to get a bunch of nomadic warriors to run the most fertile province in the realm? Or go back across the sea lol? They won't, they would ignore Dany and do whatever they want.

The point you're missing is that Dany has no strategic plan outside of gaining power for herself by any means necessary. She's not altruistic, and she would rather see the white walkers take the north than not rule them herself. She would rather burn anyone who stands in her path than give them a positive reason to follow her. She's a villain.

I stand corrected. EY1 is right. Jon Snow is Mad King's grandson, while Daenerys is his daughter.

PwC 1, how is Dany a villain? she and John Snow are the only moral leaders left alive... don't tell me you're for the Lannisters haha?

Loving the conversation y'all. All interesting thoughts and points. Can definitely see why Dani could be viewed as a villian, but only if you take her actions of this season out of the context of her story. The people of westeros dont know her story, so I think the villian angle is a perfectly reasonable argument.

I see your point on the marriage A2, that makes a lot of sense. But you've kind of ignored my main point with your second comment. Yes, the Ironborn technically are westerosi, but that doesn't change that they are vastly more a negative to the continent and its people than a positive. Do you really believe that westeros would be a better place with the Dothraki and Ironborn being the two most powerful and mobile forces?

And agreed D1, I really just want there to be conversation about this, as I feel like Dany's positive overall story does cause people to lose sight of how brutal her invasion is going to be

There are 2 Ironborn factions though. The "rogue" Ironborn faction I would say are those aligned to Cersei. Yara has shown herself to be very level-headed and honor-driven. I think she would be great for Westeros. As for the Unsullied, they can't reproduce, so they basically are mercenaries and similar to a King's Guard. They are a force to be reckoned with in terms of military force, but I don't think they're necessarily bad for Westeros since it wouldn't make sense to have any Unsullied Lords who can't reproduce.

The biggest question would be the Dothraki, but there probably won't be much need for them if the war is won. Maybe they'll go home, take Mereen, or have High Garden. I think it's naive to think Dany would let them freely rape and pillage.

PwC1 I agree Dany is not "good"
She is less morally bankrupt than Cersei but she lives by her own code.
I actually don't enjoy her as a leader... bending the knee demands are getting old

They are cousins

I think they might get pushed to marry, but likely won't. The more important question is will either or them learn John's parentage

A2 Jon's motivation is to protect his people. What you fail to see is that the people of westeros aren't Dany's people. Dany's people are raping/pillaging Dothraki/ironborn and the unsullied. What are those people's places in the new kingdom of Dany? Dany has not at any point this season mentioned the needs of the people of westeros, there hasn't been one line of dialogue about how she'll help them or plan to be better. Her ONE chance to really be better would be to go fight the WWs in the north with Jon and show she cares about the people of westeros. She didn't though, instead she demands everyone follow her or die, all stick and no carrot.

She is a villain, and idk how you all fail to see that

Eh. I can get behind marriage for political reasons. This type of marriage between relations was quite common in the era the show is emulating. I also don't think Danny's role as a villain or hero is black and white. She has done a lot of chest puffing since arriving in Westeros, but expressed more revolutionary intentions before she left. This has also been used against her in Cersei's propaganda. In her mind, she would be a more just ruler than Cersei and could change the structure of how the kingdoms are run... that she is forced to make the decision to use the equivalent of nuclear weapons actually shows some conflict... and on that note- would you call the US villains based on our use of nukes on WWII??

BCG1 agreed - when Dany was in slavers bay I would call her a hero and moral leader. She cared about her people and did a lot to end a broken system. I'm saying that NOW, in westeros, she isn't about helping the common people, she's about increasing her own power, and she's a despot.

Again, I invite any of you to bring forward a quote from S7 where Dany talks about how she'll make westeros a better place or right a wrong. In the mean time, I also invite your thoughts on the Dothraki/Ironborn/Unsullied and how they fit in westeros. How will Dany's kingdom look? Because when Dany has crushed every other army in westeros they will be able to run unopposed.

And OP, not at all, I hate the Lannisters and am excited for Cercei to lose. And I love Jon Snow because he's actually a ruler who IS moral and trying to do the right thing.

I wouldn't compare Dany to the US in WWII BCG1, the US wasn't the aggressor of that war. Dany is an invader and conqueror, and again, she is leading an army of people whose cultures are built around raping and pillaging. You could maybe compare her to Japan, and her attack on the loot train would be similar to Pearl Harbor

Even more so why a Union with Jon would make sense. You think Tyrion and Varys will idly sit by and watch her descend into tyranny?

And the preview shows that Jon will be providing counsel on military strategy, so why wouldn't Varys or Tyrion propose a Union to grow the forces and have Jon act as a stoic buffer.

The Ironborn are Westerosi...