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This is very personal. I would not consider a job at the office 5x a week. But I have children and don’t really have to work.
Are you hiring??
My current commute is 1 hour, and that's if I leave at 6am. 20 mins isn't bad at all.
I also have two kids, so I've always went with the higher paying option.
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I was talking to A2, since they think a long commute isn’t a big deal.. and that wfh was a “bonus and not a baseline”. Sorry if that was unclear lol.. and heard, I took and finished my last class for my MBA 2 days before my first was born, passed two bar exams while pregnant with him and then only had 6 weeks leave with him before starting a clerkship, only to find out I was pregnant with my second the day before starting at my first firm 🤡 freaking wild
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20 min is nothing
I only have a 20-25 minute commute, but showering, dressing, make up and hair etc results in a 90 minute reduction in productive hours for the day. Plus the 25 minutes home, so make that 2 hours a day at least that I’m not billing and not getting back in my life. No thank you.
I value WLB so 2nd choice would be my pick personally. 0-$30k isn’t enough of a difference.
Name brand of the firm you mean? Such a personal choice. If the money was truly that close and the people were equally as good (or bad) I’d go for the wfh-heavier option.
I’m currently 5 days RTO and I have flexibility to WFH when needed (Dr appts, sick, kid appts) and I hate it. I’d definitely take less pay for more hybrid days. I have two kids and hate only seeing them for a few hours every day.
But you have to evaluate what the steps after this job would be for you. Is the preferred firm’s practice more transferable? Is the name more recognizable/they have more important clients and you want to go in house where this could help? Would you have a better chance to go up the ladder in the smaller one because you’re helping build it up? These might tip the scale for me if I was torn and the RTO didn’t bother me. But there’s also the risk of even place 2 going full RTO, too.
This is where I am torn too. The top place would likely offer more training and mentorship, whereas the second choice would be a more “learn as you go” environment (due to less resources and people to turn to for help, etc.). Personally, I prefer structure and mentorship, so that along with it being my preferred practice area was why I had been leaning towards it. But more than one interviewer has flagged that the work culture can sometimes be a little intense (relatively speaking) so that along with the 5 days RTO is making me question whether this trade-off is worth it.
Generally speaking, there is no excuse for an employer to require RTO 5x a week. To me it shows their management is old-fashioned and out of date (i.e., the feudal lord minding the serfs).
RTO communicates lack of trust in the workforce, and to me, it is such a significant red flag of a toxic workplace because it magnetically attracts toxic co-workers (“we have to be together, because we’re a family” complete with petty politics, busybodies, tattletales, gossips, etc).
If they are your top choice, then go for it. Just understand that culture can make even the best opportunity not worthwhile…
This is a good point! The RTO is really making me question whether the tradeoff is worth it tbh lol. I’m starting to wonder whether the loss of quality of life (being in office 5 days a week) is worth the tradeoff of working in a practice area I prefer, especially since the culture could be very well like you describe.
I turned down offer that was 90-100k increase but I already make 450 TC in house, remote and easy gig. New job would have been 2 days in offixe with 4 hour round trip commute to wall street, and more work/managing ppl. I work to live not live to work.
Your current job sounds like the dream! If you’re looking for someone junior to add to your team, please let me know lol
I like what you’re saying about the 1st choice and I’m also concerned that the 2nd choice could their policy to 5 days RTO. But I personally value flexibility more than anything, so I would go with the thing that gives me the most flexibility.
My company went from 1->3->5 day RTO in a span of a few years. Hate it but I've gotten used to it. I use it as a way to maintain wlb: I work the hours I work in the office and rarely a minute more. Once the laptop is shut, it isn't opening back up till the next day.
I still have tons of flexibility (most clients and legal team are in different cities and time zones) and I pop in and out as needed. I get my stuff done and no one cares that I duck out early if I'm slow.
Hhh I h him I
Some more details:
Both should have good WLB, but 2nd choice likely more so. Adding to the mix is the fact that I was planning a trip to the other side of the world early next year and wanted to propose working abroad for 1-2 weeks (and then taking 1-2 weeks off), which would likely be okay with 2nd choice but less okay with 1st. Though this is a one-time thing, I am wondering if the pros mentioned above will outweigh the tradeoff of less flexibility and freedom in the long run. At my current position I work remotely, so I also wonder if making the shift back to in-person and then giving up RTO 2 days a week for RTO 5 days a week would be considered crazy. Appreciate any insights!
How much lower is the hybrid job pay? And what’s the commute time for the hybrid job?
Preferred practice area, training and mentorship opportunities, more resources and support from colleagues (anticipated), stronger name branding, and feels like it might be more stable since there are more systems and resources in place. Second choice is still growing so I would be joining a smaller practice and be expected to help build it from the ground up (which can be an exciting and great learning opportunity in a different way…)