Is anyone else noticing associates taking their foot off the gas with this whole thing. I’m struggling to try to explain firm economics to them. I’ve lived through several slow downs and they always made me work harder when I was an associate but seems like this one is different. I don’t know if it is wfh or what but wondering how to get them to reengage.

likehelpful
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at
Highlighted IconHIGHLIGHTED

They don't get it. Their sense of entitlement is staggering.

We tentatively reduced associate base pay by 15% earlier this year. A low performer complained to me. I suggested that the only choices were to cut base pay across the board or cut 15% of the associates. He said he preferred that we hold salaries and cut associates. I asked if he was concerned that his may be viewed at being in the bottom 15%. He appeared shocked. They be became fragile, asking how to build political support. When I told him political support likely is of dubious value because the real goal is full utilization. I thought he might cry. Sad.

likesmart

You honestly did him a favor. Hopefully he is young enough that he can rectify it before he’s an older associate with no book and no references and looking to find a job that won’t pay him what he thinks he’s worth.

likesmarthelpfulfunny

Ask them how they are doing and then listen. They may be so worried they are all going to get cut soon that they are feeling defeated and that is making them unproductive because: why try resist the inevitable?

They don’t know how firm profits work because they have probably never been privy to that. This is the perfect time to drill down to everyone the cost of the work.

Break down the department into revenue in, cost out to show them how hard it is to maintain status quo when there is a slump. Will they see you make money? Sure. You know what, though? They probably do have enough acumen to understand there are reasons you are paid what you are paid (if you are even being paid right now). That, then, gives them an idea of what they might make someday (again, assuming you are even taking pay now). If you aren’t taking pay now, that might be the motivation they need: to see those above them are sacrificing it all to allow them to have food on the table. That may help breed loyalty now and in the future. It also breeds fiscal responsibility because they realize that new office chair they want has an impact on the bottom line. So, then they can start to ask themselves “will this comfort make me more productive such that I will bring in more money because of this?”

If they can get that then you have an entire wave of associates who will rise through your ranks knowing why it is important to get out there and know people because every connection is the potential to bring in new business.

I work for a small firm. I used to have more information about gross and net profit than I do now because we have grown from a two attorney firm with support staff to more of an organization. I want to know what is going on. If we aren’t breaking even, let me know because maybe I can help. Maybe I can take a pay cut. Maybe I can take a pay cut now with an equity agreement. Or, maybe I can think of a marketing strategy we haven’t used before.

They are probably burned out. Let them think about the money for a minute rather than the law and see who rises up. You need business leaders as much as you need people who can do legal work. You may have a shooting star who can do both. Why wait to tap their strength and energy until they are many years into the system and tired already and plotting their own eventual out?

Some attorneys work. Some attorneys make rain. Find out if you have any who can do both.

like

This is the best reply so far. Attorneys (on average) in general suck at math and general business concepts of partnerships and the value of a firm vs going it alone. Plus we have huge egos.

Educate them early and most will get it.

like
Recent IconRecent

Let’s be honest here: we’re all less productive. There’s something very tiring about this invisible threat, being stuck at home, not seeking loved ones, wondering how long it will last, etc.

likehelpful

Yes. I get the feeling they think we want them to bill because of our own profits and while that’s partially true, it’s also their job security.

like

One thing that I’ve been trying to do (not necessarily succeeding) is to instill a sense of ownership in our work. And to answer the original question, yes, I’ve noticed it.

likehelpful

There is a lot going on right now. I have been productive but I can't even think right now. I really needed this weekend off.

I had an associate that I needed to speak to about billing earlier in the pandemic. I offered complete support in ways that I was able to. Because of my supportive and rational approach she was able to increase her billing by 18% the next month. Be kind and concrete and it might work.

likesmart

Are these associates declining work or is it just not magically appearing for them to do? I struggle with the notion that associates should be jammed up about production if they are not being provided work from partners. Also, I spent some time in house. Law firms do not have the best people management skills. Sometimes you are getting out of associates what you put in.

like

I suggest you point out that the firm is a business, not the associate relief act. Be blunt. Those just out of college don’t have a real view of the world. Remind them if they are not generating revenue, the firm doesn’t need them.

like

I value loyalty very highly for all aspects of life. When interviewing I try to find if the person has been loyal to anything in their life. Another good clue is if they volunteer for something they believe in. It shows they think of others not just themselves.

Are you holding regular meetings/conferences of any kind with them? With everyone working remotely it’s hard to keep folks on the same page. A weekly conference call or zoom meeting to discuss cases, tasks, goals, billing, etc can build some accountability and keep people focused.

like

I think we are all a bit burned out. Our Managing Partner just said at the end of our partners’ meeting, via WebEx, that we should all make a point to take a day off and not think about work.

like

It may be generational; it may be the uniqueness of this particular slow down (world wide pandemic that has everyone concerned) but if you’re in high end personal injury litigation and appeals, as I am; the shut down will inevitably cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars in cases we were unable to generate for a two month period; and there really isn’t anything any associate (or partner) can really do to make up for it (even if we somehow increased our number of new cases intakes over the next few months; it could be argued we would have experienced that increase regardless); so, from our position; as a virtually strictly contingency fee firm; we are just having to live with it. But I agree that when I was an associate (briefly for 18 months before becoming a founding partner of my current firm) I know I worked at least 90 hours a week; and that was without a “slowdown.” So I agree that, at the very least; associates need to step up and help us at least catch up with motion practice; pretrials; memos; and client communications; which have piled up over the shutdown. The fact they are fishing for raises in such an economic hard time in exchange for this increase in effort befuddles me. The work ethic is clearly not the same as it was 14 years ago when I was an associate.

like

Adrenaline got us through the first month or so. Frequent communication and encouragement carried us through the second month. However, over the past 2-3 weeks, fatigue has manifested itself in several ways. No question, productivity has taken a hit. In our call yesterday, i asked what I can do to help everyone. One person answered that since I cannot control access the things that he looks forward to and make his life enjoyable - going to the gym before work, watching baseball when he gets home, going out to dinner with his family and going to church on sunday- there’s not much I can do. I talked about focusing on what we can control and finding enjoyment from other activities. However, the bottom line is that we are professionals and must grind our way through.

helpful

Yep. Got to do a lot of hustle to stay secure through the downturn.

like

I want to pull a scene from Bull Durham and jus start yelling at them.. “You guys! You lolligag your way around the office. You lolligag your work assignment deadlines. You lolligag on getting back to clients. You know what that makes you? Lolligaggers!”

likefunny

Yes and it is disappointing. I remind them that we have a responsibility to our clients who are also going through uncharted times and need our counsel. The work we do is ultimately to benefit another—the client, to whom we owe a fiduciary duty. We have the privilege of representing others and with that comes the responsibility to sometimes put aside whatever we are feeling or bothering us to get the work done.

like

Yes, I have noticed it. Some of it is a decline in new work, but it’s happening even on cases that haven’t slowed down.

like

How about early Monday morning Microsoft team meetings?

like

Yuck then I have to be up early on Monday.

likesmart

From what I have seen, it is just usual tendencies exacerbated. Those who work hard have continued to, and have generally tried to do even more. Those who don’t have not been. There have been a small number of cases in which circumstances dictated a high performer slowing down a bit, but it has been quite rare. I have been absolutely crushed since March but much of that was in work that predated the crisis and has kept going. The medium and longer terms are less clear.

like

No. In fact I see the opposite because of concern about the firm’s future. I think this depends on firm culture and not a lack of work ethic. Perhaps your client base is not as threatened financially as our clients many of which are suffering badly and laying off workers.

Related Posts

Hi! Anybody knows of federal agencies hiring that are offering fulltime telework/remote?
I currently work for an agency based in DC and my boss is forcing us to come back into the office fulltime after we’ve been remote for nearly two years. Majority of my coworkers have already left for the private sector but I’d like to remain in the public.

likehelpful
like

Hi Team,
Any idea about
Trantor Softwares. Got offer of 28 lpa and 1 lack JB for 6 yoe in java, springboot, microservices and aws.
Location. Remote
Thanks!

likehelpful

I know it’s nearing the end of mandatory WFH, but I’m currently still home 3-4 days a week. Really struggling with staying on task without people around. Is anyone willing to do a few hours of FaceTime during the day to body double for each other?

like

Hi! I've worked as PM/Sr BA/PO in the past, have 5 yoe. Then was called for military active orders for one year, and now trying to get back into the civilian world. I'm looking for product management jobs in Irvine, CA or remote!

I have a product manager interview with PwC next week and was wondering if anyone had any tips? I heard the interviews at Consulting firms are a bit different. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

like

Hi folks, looking to move to Miami in Coral Gables, near Giralda Plaza but i'm afraid of the noise coming from the street since im wfh. Any feedback on It? Is the street really busy?

Any M&A tax practices out there that will allow remote/mostly remote work in the future? Where?

like

Is Nokia calling people to the office or people can still work from home?

Looking for a remote/hybrid/onsite (Calgary,Alberta) job for my boyfriend who got almost 5 years of experience in proposal writing, RFP, RFI and bid management for a civil engineering firm. He also got an MBA, non drinker, non smoker, clean driving abstract and very polite. He gave out tons of cv in indeed job posters for the past 5 months, ends up becoming the filler candidate, took a huge toll in his mental health and we are going through some very rough patches. Can anyone please kindly help?

like

People can be terminated for requesting Work from home option due to health issues? Please share the inputs and if anyone know about the legal terms.Thank you.

I'm interested in data analyst remote positions.
Any suggestions on companies to apply to ?

like

Hi all, Can anyone please refer me for any open roles in ETL testing.
YOE- 7.5 years
Currently serving NP
Preferred working mode: WFH.

Thanks in advance!

I’m a Senior BSA/AML/Fraud Analyst at a regional bank, 100% remote, have bachelor’s degree in business, 6 YOE in my field, TC is about $60k, & I live in KY. I've been thinking about moving from working at banks to a fintech because I feel like that’s the only way to increase my TC. I feel like I've been severely underpaid for the type of work I do even with the education, experience, etc; however, cost of living is extremely low in KY. Any advice?

like

Currently I am in Deloitte India with(6.5yrs exp) 13Lac WFH Pune hometown
I am interviewing with SAP LABS India how much should I expect for banglore location (hybrid) will need to relocate
Would it be a good decision to relocate as I am staying with my family in pune?

like

I currently work in Revenue Cycle Management and I’m so unhappy. I started my career with BCBS processing claims and that was a dream. I would take a pay cut just to go back to that. I’m trying to transition out of RCM and into something else that will let me build off what I already know and still allow me to work from home. I’m considering getting my RHIT. Thoughts? Advice? Suggestions?

like

How's the policy in the natwest in terms of return to office. How many days it is compulsory to visit office. Is there any work from home policy there?

like

Hi Fishes,

I have 9+ yrs experience in .net development.I have offer with softura (19.5 LPA including variable) and qburst ( 21.5 LPA fixed).
Both are providing WFH.

Could anyone tell which has good work life balance?

like

I was just informed after the third round of interviews they’d like at least 5 references, two must be supervisors. My last job was a temporary remote job where I didn’t really interact with my supervisor and the jobs before that were at my family’s business (I do not speak to any of them for serious personal reasons.) Anything before that was grad school and I haven’t kept in contact with any professors from over five years ago. What should I do? 😕

like

Hi everyone...

My role was impacted as part of the layoffs in my last Org.. bitter truth to digest. So I am looking for a new role and I would appreciate your help and support.

Can anyone share Hyderabad or Remote based PM/ Sr. PM jobs.

More Posts

I am going to speak with a recruiter at Houlihan Lokey TMT in LA. I would like to know more about the group and its culture. Would love to connect and network🙏

like

DeFi bug accidentally gives $90 million to users, founder begs them to return it - CNBC

funnylike

Just got engaged and I want to get my fiancé a watch. He has an Explorer II and a Date-just. My budgets is ~$3000. I don’t really know anything about watches. Help!

like

Hello Fishes,

Has anyone have idea about Kyndryl in Brno (Czech Republic)? What is the salary they provide to overseas techie? I have total 7 YOE in networking domain. What are the pro and cons? Is it good to move from India to Czech Republic?

like

So I finished my 3rd interview with a company and the TA specialist said they loved me but can’t meet me at my bottom line salary, however, I said I can negotiate and she said she’s going to speak with the decision makers and see if they’re okay with that. What does this mean? This is for a marketing specialist role. I’m asking for $70K bottom line

like

Plan on visiting SFO this August and wanted to check if any F is up for drinks or dinner spend some quality time. Male 34 , tall 5 11, brown and happy to message and set up some time if we find each other interesting.

like

My DashPass via my CSP is expiring at end of the month. Does anyone know if I can get another year of it by adding another eligible Chase card on the same account??

like

What is with people not knowing how to read signs? We have a huge one that says “NO CASH ALLOWED” and I still get asked almost everyday if we take cash

like

Bonus is out for EY GDS steps to see. Goto gdsindiapayroll.greythr.com, click on IT Declaration on left. Then click on My Tax Planner at the top right. Then click create my plan then click view it calculation on bottom right then expand income here under adhoc income you should see variable performance bonus amout.

like

Guys for sap basis with2 yoe is there no openings

Need referrel pls help

like

GDS didn’t receive this message…

Post Photo
funnylike

Need 11 likes for DM .
Thanks everyone.

like

Any way we can support the covid 19 crisis in India? Any orgs that take foreign donations?

like

Does anyone have insight on Hogan Lovells energy regulatory practice in Denver?

like

What is a competitive starting salary in the US?

like

Is it worth to resign in this recession time ?

like
like

which is better for mainframe modernization - AWS, Google cloud or Azure

like
like

Does anyone work for Children’s medical center of Dallas on this form ? I know we recently had a “employee appreciation” bonus last month before Thanksgiving but not sure if that counts as one whole holiday bonus including Christmas , or it it’s safe to expect another in mid December ? What seems to be the latter in the past ? Any thoughts are appreciated !

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal