Big4 Sr Manager currently considering a 18 -36 months secondment overseas. Potentially transition as soon as September 2024. Which of the following countries would you pick as a US born POC female: Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, Belgium, UK? Married (spouse would be coming) with 1 dog. Also what should I consider when negotiation comp? I know salaries tend lower abroad and work-life balance improves (vacation, weekly hrs, etc.). Appreciate insights. EY PwC BDO KPMG Deloitte
I’m French native currently working in the US, here is my take on this:
- Switzerland has the highest salaries in Europe, and the country operates a funded pension plan national system, with that you would still make your own contributions towards your retirement (similar to the 401k mechanism)
- Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands operates a state PAYGO system where your contributions will go to the current retirees, and it’s unlikely you will be able to leave the country and claim your contributions after 18-36 months (but it’s something you should look into), plus salaries are much lower in these countries than in the US. Another data point: Belgium has among the highest tax system of Europe together with France and Denmark. A big turnoff.
- UK retirement system is not a state PAYGO, you would have a similar 401k account with a UK pension provider, you would make your own contribution and your company would likely match them, but salaries are much lower than in the US and cost of living, especially in London is very high, it’s not really worth it (I lived in London before moving to the US). Plus, the investment you will have made towards your UK pension will be locked up until you turn 65 years old. There’s no way of moving this money back to the US without a tax penalty, I looked into it. My take, I would recommend to go to Switzerland to maintain your US standards of living.
Thank you for the detailed reply. I have been especially curious about the impact on retirement planning.
I have lived/ worked in Europe twice but not female or POC.
A few things to consider:
Cost of living is likely to be higher in all of these places. I believe London and Switzerland would be highest because of housing. All likely higher overall.
While lovely many of the housing options will be older, smaller and with less features than US housing especially in closer in locations. Absolutely true in city centers. The flip side to this is the great culture and ability to walk rather than drive everywhere. But tradeoffs.
All will have significantly higher income taxes. You will still need to pay US federal and likely state taxes but it is offset by what you pay locally. It will get complicated but assume you will pay more money.
Both times I did this my company did a cost of living and foreign exchange adjustment to my comp. They also did my taxes and paid all of the net extra tax. For housing they deducted from my salary the cost of my housing in the US and then provided “similar” housing overseas. The first time it was essentially comparable. The second time it was luxurious by local standards but lower than where we were coming from but we were ok with that.
Quality of work life is a mixed bag. In some places people essentially clock in and out exactly at the min hours required. In other places like the UK not much different than the US. Europeans do take off their national holidays and vacations which are more generous than US standards. In most places Summer will be slow and people actually take off for 3+ weeks. Same for Easter, Christmas and school holiday weeks. There is unlikely to be email traffic or urgent meeting invites during these times.
In terms of being female and POC based on my observations / opinions you need to dig in country by country. UK is probably fine with females but is very class status oriented and sometimes treats POC as second class citizens from their old colonies. I am sure there are exceptions and varies from company to company but I doubt it is great or better than the US. In my opinion the Netherlands and Belgium have yet to fully embrace their past responsibilities for their explicit support of the slave trade or colonialism in the past. At the same time I heard over and over again how bad the US was with this same issue. Not saying US is perfect and can’t do better but I felt like they were clearly not recognizing their own role and problems while just accusing the US. I would have been totally fine hearing how both could do better so I am not being defensive. Generally speaking though the Netherlands is very open to different cultures and people from all over the world living there. Very common.
Less insight into Germany and Switzerland.
Another consideration should be your language skills. Are you fluent in any of the local languages and would your role require it? Generally speaking most educated people speak english in the countries you mentioned but that might not be the preferred language at work. Netherlands is probably the most English easy country on your list after the UK.
Overall if you can make the numbers work it will be a great experience if you are flexible and embrace the positive parts of the culture.
Thank you for your very thoughtful insights. It is much appreciated.
White gay male - went to Switzerland on secondment and never left :). Usually you keep home benefits, salary, etc and company pays your taxes. You also contribute to your home social system only. Can’t recommend doing a secondment enough, enjoy!
Thanks for sharing your experience.