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Which part of the world are y’all from?
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When was the last time you went outside and why?
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This is unpopular, because as professional adults we should be putting our PTO when it’s not impacting or blocking major milestones (with some degree of flexibility). So no, we don’t ask, we’re saying we’ll be out because PTO is an earned benefit. Now when scheduled PTO conflicts with a major deliverable/event, then it’s a conversation, but for every other situation we are not asking permission
Buuuut at the same time, you will have those people that request time off right before a holiday/major event and then be all mad that it was denied. I think the people like us that are just respectful about when we are requesting really never have to worry about being denied. It’s a two-way street. You know your job responsibilities, and your employer should respect work-life balance. Plan requests, ask as far in advance as possible, and have conversations with your manager if it’s something sudden.
When I "asked", I was denied. When my colleague told, they weren't. I'm not "asking" anymore. I'll follow the system for notifying, but i'm an adult capable of scheduling my client commitments around my time off. It's my time - i'm not asking for permission.
Bad managers be bad managing!
All of these comments reflect today's attitude of "me first." Private companies are not democracies, nor do they exist to cater to the private lives of employees. Work/life balance is important, and I support it whole heartedly. However, in today's job market, you should be grateful you have a job. Use the proper channels for time off and grow the hell up.
Interesting discussion
What will you do if the person quits, is hospitalized or dies tomorrow? Shut down the business?
This is reasonable for vacation with enough notice IMHO. If I tell my manager 9-12 months ahead of time I am taking 3 week off, then if they give me grief, there is something very wrong. If they try to cancel it after agreeing later, there is something very wrong.
If it is not for vacation, then it isn't like you have a choice, assuming it is a valid reason, so them saying 'no' is irrelevent.
My 2 cents.
We as wastewater operators tell or ask our boss out of respect for him and other operators. Plus we have a great job, great company, great benefits. We not messing up what we have.
Such a non-European question. Work is there to support your personal life. If the contract you entered into includes PTO, there's no question. Certain nationalities are so quick to insist on their right to speech, their right to post dribble online or brandish large appendices of Ursidae, but why not their right to the pursuit of happiness? It's your right, contractually in some countries, constitutional in most of Europe, to take your PTO when you are entitled to it. Take. It.
This is often times controversial because it's about the boundaries and balance of responsibilities between the manager and the employee. PTO is personal time off. It's the employee's personal responsibility to assure they are getting the appropriate rest and recovery time needed to successfully do their job. It's the manager's personal responsibility to assure that the employee has the space and time to do that within the resources, staffing, and deadlines. It's then a joint responsibility to assure if there are any gaps that occur that the employee is working with the manager to bridge any gaps that may occur. If one of these fail you will end up with burned out employees, missed deadlines, or an environment that can be toxic. I like to think of it this way does my employee need to ask me to use the bathroom. No, that's a personal requirement for them to function. If the business fails because they need to use the bathroom then you should probably consider a process to assure that those possible failures can be mitigated. If you want to control how and when they go to the bathroom then you should be prepared for the consequences of them not being able to meet their personal needs, which can get messy ( think Sims). Management is really about making sure your employees can do their best job and providing the structure and framework that they can do that. Beyond that you become a parent, a dictator, or a figurehead. All those have needs in other capacities of life but it's not really the role of a manager.
Because I'm literally not asking you for permission, I'm telling you when I'm not going to be available.
Obviously with great power comes great responsibility, so I'm not going to put in for PTO with 2 days notice during crunch time, but there is no scenario where a company gets me to reschedule PTO instead of quitting and finding a new job.
Do companies scramble and wonder why their entire staff is off during Christmas? No, because the company anticipates and plans around it every year. Companies should also anticipate and plan around most of their staff being gone at the same time during the summer. In Europe, they take this to the next level and actually close for a month.
Also, people need to stop normalizing being available/logging in while on PTO. Sorry, if I'm on PTO I am not available, will not take your call/text and will not log in just to "check on things".
This is peak boomer management energy. Framing PTO—something employees earn—as something we have to “ask permission” for is exactly why so many people are rethinking traditional workplaces. No one’s saying skip protocol, we’re saying stop treating adults like children.
You’re not doing people a favor by “more than likely approving” their time off. That entitlement to control someone’s personal time is part of the toxic dynamic workers are rejecting.
People aren’t trying to be difficult—they’re just done being micromanaged for needing a break.
You can’t plan vacation around busy season! March, April 15, September and October 15! Other than that, we can totally work around you! Quarterly end I don’t take any vacation anyways. My boss still asks me to give the “heads up”. It’s never denied. But my boss is just more anxious about it when it’s coming up! It’s over done! I get why people don’t like to give heads-up! Even though I never worked that way! I gave my notes right after the trip is booked!
Paid time off. It's a whole lot of back and forth for a self explanatory event.
If ppl want to get into how ppl conduct themselves, manners and what not. Good grief. That is not getting sorted here, by us
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It's more of a trust issue.
The request was submitted in advance and approved. However, when it got close to the date in question, the employer does takebacksies.
The entire department is off at the same time for national holidays and life goes on.
Well. Sorry for not giving you the authority to approve a PTO. Seems like you're missing out on the entitlement to micromanage. Next, it's your job to delegate roles in the absence of a team member and manage expectations (not people). So, I say informing you about PTO is already a courtesy.
I think it depends. I normally didn’t ask. At the same time, I made sure my projects were taken care of ahead of time. However, I did tell my manager. I took time off around the typical holidays and around an event that only happens once a years. I made sure my responsibilities were covered while I was out given that was the expected norm in the places I worked. There was only one case where there was a concern, on a manager’s part and I took care of it.
For most teams I was on, people checked with the team to make sure their vacation plans didn’t impact significant milestones. I mostly had proactive teams in that regard.
Now, there has been one instance where a technical person did not check with the team to see if his plans would have an impact. It put the team in a real bind.
In short, another option is to create a culture wherein teams check in with each other to make sure that their vacation plans don’t negatively impact the rest of their teammates or that they find a way to ensure someone else can cover them.
So, in my opinion and in my experience, this is generational as well as experience-driven which may account for these differences of action. I would receive PTO requests and aside from once I have never denied any of them in all of my years of management. As long as you request them at least two weeks out (for PTO 1-3 days) and one month out (for PTO 5+ days) then as long as there isn't something important occurring which will require your participation or management then I'm good. But I need to find people to cover your job and if there is in fact something pressing (which you should already know about and have considered) then I may have to determine that it isn't a great time for you to take off. There are many factors at play. Is this a family obligation (reunion, wedding, etc.), is it something that can be rescheduled, is it something you knew about months ago, etc. I also don't want to bother you at all when you are out so if you are the primary POC for something that requires your attention, that needs to be taken into consideration. I will not blindly approve your request - it is in fact a request. If it is due to illness of yourself or family, that's another story. Yes, your PTO was earned but no, you cannot put the department, client, project or company in jeopardy because you want to go to Ibiza for a week at a moments notice. You don't like it, quit and I'll replace you.
Pro
I can remember jobs where you had to put in you requests ,a year ahead or wait for the request to come back with an approval signature. This stuff they're doing now is just a small part of the management completely catering to employees. It used to be if you wanted to keep your job yada...now you see management putting up with all kinds of baboon-ery,to overly respect people that don't respect themselves or the place that pays them so they can buy and do stuff. Completely butt backwards. We need to run it back.
Hey Driver,
Back then, companies gave people pensions and kept people on for decades until they retired with a gold watch.
Today, companies make people pay into 401(k)’s, perform impulsive layoffs based on quarterly earnings reports, and have not been increasing salaries in pace with inflation for decades. I’m failing to see any data showing that companies “completely catering to employees.”
Its a different mindset between the scavengers and the lions. Some people feel entitled to everything, while others understand that they are not the main character and the business does not serve them.