Any advice on adjusting to life at a big firm? I started my career at a boutique firm and I always had a lot of autonomy and control over my workload along with awesome supportive coworkers. Now, I feel like I'm drowning in just about every aspect of work with these huge cases and a much faster pace.

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at

OP, We are here to help and you are helping others by daring to post what you are experiencing and by so clearly stating what you need.
This is my 25th year in practice, and I was the seat mate of former Supreme Ct Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg at a private club in Washington, DC, so I’m embracing the role of elder [so I don’t FEEL so old /grin/].
Props to Associate 2 for such a cogent, helpful, and positive thinking response. Read Associate 2’s message over and over — even when you are a partner.
Authoring briefs, book chapters, federal & industry guidance documents — and being The Fixer for client & firm crises (Really — transactional, M&A, corporate, litigation, IP, employment, all sciences, etc.) — those & unquestionable thoroughness & accuracy are my fortes, not brevity. Please bear with me as I write to extend a helping hand.

BASIC SURVIVAL STEPS:
1. Breathe. Learn diaphragmatic (yoga style) breathing and do it at least 3 times a day.
2. Use the guidance already in place through CLEs, your Bar Ass’ns, books, … anything & everything on preventing Executive Burnout, Executive PTSD, and Executive Dysfunction. Those are the REAL disorders that are so very hard to fend off much less beat when the BigLaw attorney is conscientious and has a soul, as you evidently do.
3. MANTRA that is what Associate 2 has explained but here’s the key phrase: Under promise, over deliver. Don’t get it backwards. /wink & grin/. Getting it backwards is how attorneys trash/ &/or lose their professional reputations, their outside support network of friends, family, and community, and, concomitantly, their balance, ie, the confidence in competence & place in the world.
4. TRUST FEW; Be Friendly to Civil to All:
NEVER EVER write or say anything negative or critical about ANYONE in your firm under the following conditions: Never say anything negative re: Firm to anyone who may be your “office friend” or “colleague in the field friend” or “mentoring partner” — Consider always “Qui bono?” Sadly, your venal, soulless colleagues who act and seem like “friends” will ALWAYS choose their own self-interests. As for writing negative things, just don’t — never, and certainly not on a firm linked device.

SURVIVE THIS WITH A TRIBE
There are quite a few tomes I’ve posted in the bowl on how to build your tribe, how to id who to trust, how to create a support network for your work and for your life.

5. GET AN ELDER AS A SOUNDING BOARD IF NOT MENTOR
Attorneys like me have no ulterior motives and feel the loss if you don’t do well professionally or personally. You are our next generation (even partners are next gen to me now/grin/) and I will do all I can to assist & guide you. You can DM me or find a person OUTSIDE YOUR FIRM who has nothing to gain by any trip up on your part.

6. LIVE IN A SAFE SPACE:
It’s a mindset, not a matter of economics. Puhlease, I lived in “urban renewal” my 1st 17 years of practice.
A safe space is the space in your mind, in your office, in your transportation, in your HOME, and in relationships in which:
You do not put yourself down or demean yourself and no one else does.
You return home each day to your “sanctuary,” an oasis of peace, serenity, and no demands other than from your beloved pets who want to be fed or stroked.
You have a lovely room in your mind you enter to focus on work and/or to tune out the stressors coming at you externally.
You have playlists for boosting your spirits, feeling resonance for anger, despair, being overwhelmed, or upbeat.
Safety in a crime ridden area is a state of mind just like safety in the Cold War meats WWIII meats guerrilla warfare at the office. U lived in “urban renewal” and paid off my college & law school loans ($450K) & bought a house by age 31 — and sure my apt in DC was made available after the DEA dragged off the last resident, and sure the neighborhood drug dealer/registered rapist sex offender lived across the street from me when I could finally buy a house, but I paid off the overhanging debt from law school, built a portfolio that tripled yearly, got the ghetto apt building converted to a building on the National Historic Registry, and supported 5 people yahdy yah yah — oh, and I built my consulting business equipment, technology, knowledge, every chance I got for almost 9 years when I saw how the partnership track REALLY played out, particularly for women of my day.

7. KEEP YOUR HUMOR
Even if only in your head. Take ling walks with friends on weekends. Do the gym if you like but I’m a fresh air person.
SEE THE ABOVE on CREATING THE ENVIRONMENT for your goals and the soundtrack you can grieve to and bounce back with.
I’ve posted in the bowl some of mine - and they ain’t Disney or girlie songs.

Gotta jump - fortunately for you, as I’m at a place in life where I love giving gratuitous advice when I am not teaching corporate VPs, attorneys, or law students. DM anytime. I’ll make you laugh, help you with perspective, and guide you on getting through anything. Remember that I come from a time when it was customary to physically beat associates in addition to the other abuses and reporting sexual harassment just got the woman investigated for slutty or flirtatious behavior and then industry blackballed. So, my mental room and my home sanctuary were survival base points.

FINALLY
As for keeping promises & your balance, when you say something stand by it, no matter what courage it takes. For example, when I had given my last shred of tolerance in warnings to one of my worst sexually harassing partners, I told him that if he ever touched me again I would beat the crap out of him. I meant it. I went straight from being felt up & down and my pushing him (after telling him I’d NEVER wear what he kept buying me because his presents were dropped at the homeless shelter on my walk home — jewelry, silk scarves, lingerie, ALL OF IT) and strode boldly into the employment law chief partner’s office and explained what I had just PROMISED to do to that partner as he was demanding dinner that night etc.
THAT got me traction. Male & female associates and THE female partner had for almost a year told me that it was just the way of life and he’d pick a new flavor (victim) once a younger associate who appealed to him was hired in a year or so. THAT was the gasoline on my fire. DON’T LET OTHERS MAKE YOU KNUCKLE UNDER TO BEING OTHERS’ PREY — and DON’T BE A COWARD and pass it to our young. My friend who sued at another firm at the time has such severe PTSD that she has never been able to practice law, even had she not been blackballed.
Ever since that episode, my threatening that shocked old fart and letting him know I really had chinked his gifts of real, valuable jewels and garments makes me laugh.
Picture me as a 1st year in 3inch heels and pantyhose (LOL) and apply your own courage to be yourself — there you will tap into your laughter and you’ll be fine.

likesmartuplifting

Associate Attorney 1, Please do DM me! Hearing from you would be a pleasure, being of any support to you would be my honor. Please forgive my delay in seeing your kind response. It was compressed and I’m not on the bowl as often as I’d like b/c I’ve had to take on a caregiver role temporarily at home. Truly, clocking 4K hrs a year in BigLaw left me feeling more rested and more competent than this! So, please, do DM and give my brain something to focus on other than household roles! There is much I’d love to learn from you, particularly regarding our current generations and how the new paradigms are playing out.

Outsource stuff in your personal life to save time. It’s part of the reason the salary is high. Get cleaners, dog walkers, pre-made lunch plans, etc. Also consider a personal trainer so you’ve got some accountability to turn up to the gym.

likehelpful

Welcome to biglaw. Outsource everything possible in your personal life (laundry service, housekeeper, meal prep service, etc). Delegate everything possible in your work life (use your juniors, paralegals, assistant, document services, research team, etc).

likehelpful

Remember to utilize your assistant.

likehelpful

Any suggestions? I can't think of anything to give them.

like

Utilize your assistant and the word processing department to the extent possible. Much longer hours are going to be necessary, so simplify your personal life, if necessary (maid, order groceries for delivery, dry cleaning pickup and delivery, laundry service, etc). Once you get accustomed to the work and pace, you won’t need much support because things will become second nature.

like

Practical and to the point. Great advice.

Learn to play the politics right, and you should be fine. It ain't Kansas anymore!

likefunny

Wow! Thank you so much. This thread has been on my mind as have all of you. If you’ve seen my other tomes here on “Guides to …[Extricating Yourself from a Crazy/Clingy/Disorganized/or Unhelpful Partner or Sr Associate or Ensuring You Ate Not Being Frozen Out and How to Prevent Being Frozen Out [by Becoming a Rainmaker even in BigLaw]],” you’ve seen that I live by those core principles and miss the day to day teaching and mentoring. Thank you for reading my message and for being so kind as to respond. May the wind always be at your back, SA

Outsource as others have said but also start learning how to not make promises you can’t keep. Everything other than the most sacred events are work permitting. That doesn’t mean you can’t go but you may need to step out for a call or work on a laptop during half time etc.

I think when I started I was trying too hard to not let people down and saying I could do things and bail last minute.m, so now I say yes I would love to do x, work permitting.
The flip side is if work isn’t stopping me from doing something I do it - no exceptions.

I think I have a pretty healthy balance in my life of people knowing my commitment is somewhat unknown but that I will also do everything in my power to go. Feels pretty smooth.

For big events - bachelor parties, weddings of close friends, etc. I take the hit at work and get coverage or tell the partner I need them to take over for the weekend. There are just some things you have to do to show your friends and family work isn’t more important than the most important things in their life.

likesmart

Associate 5 — Associate 2 is NOT replaceable. No cogent, eloquent, caring, forward-thinking, proactive attorney in our profession is fungible or disposable. Please, for your own sake as well as for those you influence, think of curating and cultivating these positive traits in our associates and our profession.
Props for being “well on the way to counsel,” … which in BigLaw is the same as speaking fae. It means what it means to whoever comprise the PTB at the time that draws are apportioned, rating positions secured, dislikes and grudges attended to, … oh, and whatever the world market is at the time. The Lloyds of London crash happened when I was in law, 9/11 on my first day as a lateral at the next target on the terrorist list, … there are so many factors and facets beyond our knowledge and control that cause not just sea changes but tsunamis in our profession.
You face a difficult choice: Learn from history and your elders in this field, learn awareness beyond the self-referential, and make your words and actions a credit to your own skills & reputation, your firm, and our profession, mindful that words are our tools, and we build as well as destroy with them …
Or …
Be self-congratulatory, self-serving, and self-referential and perpetuate a destructive and dysfunctional cycle in our profession.
We need your wisdom and these associates need your support.

This thread is depressing. I just accepted a role at a Big Law firm and am now wondering if I should withdraw it.

like

If you want WLB or meaningful autonomy over your life, then withdraw.

If you are ok with sacrificing those things, then jump on board.

Do not be gaslit by those who insist big law is sustainable. It isn't

The reason why people need to write a manifesto to survive big law is because it is not sustainable.

There is no other way to put it.

Very few people have sustainable and meaningful lives outside of their firm, barring a few exceptions.

So while I think the advice people are giving is great do not feel shitty if you hate it. It's not designed to be liked.

like

Associate 7 — So change the paradigm. Make it, make us better. You are here helping. You have the knowledge and skills to help us all. This ain’t no march on Washington, it is us deciding how we wish to evolve as we kick down rotting edifices. When you speak, write, act — you are heard. We need you.

Related Posts

Best product legal teams at Google in your opinion (e.g. Ads, Google Play, Chrome, Cloud, etc.)? While I’m assuming it’s all team-dependent, any general, across-the-board ranking based on WLB, culture, morale, most impact, and most coveted?

like

Is anyone from this bowl working at 6sense?

If yes, please share some info regarding work culture, Work life balance, job security and employee benefits.

Thanks in advance, fishes.

like
like

Can someone share their experiences on work life balance and culture within Charles Schwab ? A family member will be joining their workforce as a software engineer. We’d love to learn from employee experiences. Charles Schwab.

like

Got an offer for M level at Deloitte UK for one of engineering teams. Need to know the wlb for folks at this level and any other advise that you would like to pass on

like

How is Deloitte USI Finance Strategy and Transformation profile in terms of exposure and work life balance?

like

1. What are the hierarchy leveles in ZS Associates (software development). ZS folks , kindly help me on the same. I am having 4 years of experience, what hierarchy band can i expect?

2. How much percentage is variable component in ZS? I come from ACN which has 21% vp component.
Is vp paid fully?

3. Also, how is wlb in zs, Haven't heard quite good abt zs wlb..

ZS Associates

like

Hi Fishes and Sharks,

Anyone looking out for referral in Maersk for Data Engineer, Engineering Manager roles, Please DM me. Lots of opportunities with good WLB and competitive package.

Post Photo
like

Please suggest:
KPMG (Data Engineer) vs CitiusTech (Sr. Software Engineer? Package is not so imp - looking for wlb and learning growth.

Hi, i have received an offer as a senior technology consultant from EY India Bangalore location.

16LPA fixed with variable 20%max .YOE 3.2 yrs

1) How is EY India? I have asked people working there and everyone has said positive things about the organisation. Wanted to double check.

My main objective is to learn as much as I can. I know the work life balance can be off. I'm willing to work 9 -10 hours a day.

I have other offers from Cognizant.
Which one to join, please suggest 5 days left.

like

How is the WLB in UST Global

like

Any ZScaler Commercial AEs here?

Just got a call about a 96k base:
/160k OTE role out of Plano TX

I’m intrigued but I want to know 2 things:
1. Culture/WLB - how is it?
2. Realistic market opportunity/opportunity to crush quota (obv dependent on many things)

Background: Currently making 95k/160k OTE at a boutique research and consulting firm. I’m happy but we’re extremely flat with little to no opp for promotion in the next 2+ years.

like

How is WLB in AMD?

like

Hi Everyone

Can someone please tell me about AI/ML Team at Comcast India? How are the work-life balance, culture, and entry-level pay?

Hi fishes,
I am 3.6 years experience
I have offer from Invesco and EY offering 15 LPA .

Can you suggest what to choose
Based on WLB

like

How is the wlb in CTS and Virtusa for 8 years of Java developer Cognizant Virtusa

like

How's CCOR lob? Can I expect good wlb?

like

How is work life balance at opentext professional services compared with opentext support.

I have an offer with Citi Chennai for 36 l PMO and IBM for 27 l... Which gives better work life bal?

More Posts

Jummah Mubarak Fam 💚

like

Kejri after watching Radhe

Post Photo
funnylike

Have any American Producers ever successfully been able to freelance abroad (London or Amsterdam)? Any advice?

Crowe is hiring for quite a few positions across the US (Internal Audit, IT controls and cyber/digital security, Compliance,etc)… I’m a manager and would think some of these niche areas have great opportunity for new folks to excel rather quickly. Great flexibility and mobility policies. I’d be happy to chat if interested and get you directly in touch with the right people internally.

likefunny

Has anyone used Motley Fool’s stock advisor program, and found it helpful and worth the membership access?

like

At least the parts are laid out nicely

Post Photo
likefunny

Well sh*t...what’re y’all doing?

Post Photo
likefunny

Budget builders — What is your agency’s typical budget percentage split between agency fees and production budget? Are you holding as much as 40% for agency fees?

like

I’ve worked 14+ days every day in November except yesterday when I only logged 6 hours of work (billable plus non-billable) (were required to upload our time every night now). How long should I wait after hanging up with our CFO just now who called me to tell me I’m behind and slacking to update my resume?

Hello I'm new to fishbowl and also I'm a
recruiter in Seattle looking currently for
building engineers for Seattle, Denver and
Portland roles! Hopefully will meet some
through connections on here so if you
know anyone please send them my way!!

like

How do you handle people complaining about store policies? I don't make the rules, but I don't want to be rude

like

Looking to buy Rolex OP. Thoughts on new vs used? Is the additional ~2k worth it for new?

Thinking of switching employers. Do you think bigger retail stores (the ones that have several locations) are easier or harder to work at than little hole-in-the-wall grocery stores (which is all I've ever done)? It seems like the larger chain stores would have more downtime, but I'm wondering if anyone could give some input.

like

Wipro Europe Salesforce Opening

Post Photo
like

What are some good workshop classes for improving your presentation skills?

like

Hello Everyone,
Would someone be willing to refer me for a position in Salesforce at Hyderabad ? I am looking at Program Manager roles currently with 9 years of experience.

Many many thanks in advance

like

Hi, I need a referral for an internship
in Financial Advisory Team
Valuation, M&A, FDD, or Financial
Consulting - at
Big 4 in Germany,
can anyone help me?
I did my bachelor's degree at the
University of Mannheim.
I would appreciate any kind of
support and advice.
I'm not above reaching out to alumni
directly via Linkedln, but l'd prefer to
bug as few as possible. So if you
want to help, guide, or mentor,
please pm me.
PwC Deloitte KPMG EY

like

canada vs. US salaries at Amazon? I’m interviewing for a role at amazon. Any insights on if the salaries advertised for US roles are comparable for Canadian roles? I don’t want to give my range - in fear that I’ll undersell myself. Any insights? (It’s for a senior proposal manager role -10+ years experience)

like

Is it possible to get a Sr. Project Manager role or delivery lead at one of the big consulting agencies without having to travel an absurd amount and get paid 150k plus in total compensation?

What is expected salary for senior tax 1 in Boston with cpa at mid tier firm?

like

Additional Posts in Corporate Transactional Law

Anyone use charts for contract review? If so, what headings do you put in the first row?

likefunny

Does anyone here work for Axiom or know someone who does and, if so, how difficult is it to stay fully engaged?

like

Anyone have an objection to me pretty much running my timer nonstop on the day a deal closes as a junior associate? It seems fair to me

like

Corporate / M&A folks making moves over the last few months: Got an offer from a top 50 lockstep AmLaw100 firm. 4th year. Not NYC but in a market that was recently bumped up to the previous Cravath scale market. Base is obviously set. What should I expect / negotiate for signing bonus, year-end bonus eligibility, special bonus eligibility, etc.? Any other negotiation considerations? I would say leverage is on my side considerably.

like

Anyone looking to relocate or in Cinci Ohio to work for a great team in a wonderful top 100 firm… dm me please! :)

Is it possible to be a “silent” investor (party A) with a friend who’s an accredited investor (party B)investing in a company? So if B is investing $50k in a company, and A wants to give B $25k of that investment, is this possible with an agreement between A and B, where they’re responsible for their own portion of taxes?

Who’s planning on leaving after getting their bonus?

like

First 70 billable hour week and am dying. How do some of you do this on a regular basis?

like

Stupid Question but what IS tech trans? I’ve seen the chambers/vault articles & firm descriptions but I still don’t get it - are you specialists that support deals? Do you manage M&A/capmkts deals for tech clients? Is it mostly commercial contracts? Is it mostly ECVC? Tech Trans lawyers: what’s your day to day like? How is your practice diff from other Corp practices?

like

Purpose of a W-9 on an acquisition? Who should be filling them out?

What's the best place to find actual transaction precedents other than Edgar, assuming there is none within your firms database? Many thanks in advance!

like

I recently left the gov’t for private practice with a M&A group. How does everyone bill when you are thinking about how to structure it and what docs need to get drafted? I’m learning that billing is an art so any canned language would be great!

likehelpful

Any firms in London hiring US qualified associates into their capital markets practice?

like

How do NYC big law real estate groups hold up during recessions? Are they one of the harder hit corporate groups or is there more stability?

like

I have an asset purchase of a retail store transaction. Seller is keeping the second location. Seller is licensing the name from the buyer. The licensing agreement is supposed to contain provisions so that the seller cannot offer promotions or discounts that the buyer does not also offer (i.e., seller cannot undercut buyer's pricing). I know very little about antitrust. Can anyone give me some suggestions how to enforceably draft this agreement, or is this arrangement impossible?

like

As the indemnified party, do you exclude Indemnity obligations from the LoL cap?

like

My boss is asking me to “reconsider” the way I approach a client… I am in charge of this annoying corporate maintenance thing that we do for a client (I.e., making board of directors meeting to comply with some regulatory reporting required. I always end up missing deadlines. How would you reply?

like

Any book recommendations on Clinical Trial Agreements?

like

Working on a deal where buyer's side keeps on insisting on a POA to effectuate all actions of Seller under the agreement, including executing documents. I keep striking this and commenting that this is not standard. Has anyone dealt with this? I am okay with a limited POA based on the industry of the Seller, but not this general POA.

Why provide redlines against the original draft instead of the last turn when sending drafts to opposite counsel?! This profession makes no sense.

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal