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Quit quit quitttttyyyy time!
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BeCiAL sPoNuSeS this year??
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To me, big law is subjective. I’ve heard anything over 300 attorneys considered “big law” while others don’t consider anything that doesn’t pay full market big law. In my opinion, the very top of the Am100 list just means those associates aren’t getting “real” work for the first 4ish years, so when they lateral down to the lower am100 they are really good at cite checking and doc review but haven’t done depositions, while my low am 100 peers are starting to take expert depositions their fourth or fifth year.
Subject Expert
Well, the money can be significantly different (like six figure differences at some levels) depending whether you’re on Cravath scale or not. There’s certainly some more lifestyle places at the lower tier biglaw, but it’s still biglaw, so they’re not 9-5, but maybe less expectation of constant 2 hour turnaround and pulling all nighters every week.
Experience wise I do see a difference. Some lower tier biglaw places are great, but most of them are not nonstop working on the same size and complexity of deals as my firm is, so they don’t have the same level of expertise and sometimes make comments that indicate a lack of understanding etc. What’s an everyday deal to me might be a biggest deal of the year for another firm. It can get tiring to have to talk folks around to what we consider “market” but that’s such a loaded term that means something different to everyone.
But then again, everyone at my firm is so underwater all the time sometimes I’m just scratching my head at how my midlevels have gotten this far without learning XYZ (hint: it’s this MIA partner sink or swim nonsense... the associates learn to stay afloat, but sometimes they’re doing it wrong through no fault of their own 🤦🏽♀️ ). I know a lot of people like to shit on biglaw for no one getting real substantive experience early on, but that is the opposite of the problem at my firm.
Thanks for your response - I definitely agree with most of your points. From my and close friend’s experiences amlaw200 has slightly less billable requirements (and 20-40K less pay) but a lot better work/life “balance” (e.g. still work 10 hour days but no weekends/late nights - although could differ between practice groups). Only thing I have noted and heard from others at amlaw100 & 200 that differs from your comment is that the deals are quite large still with lots of big players. So I’d shy away from that generalization but again totally depends on the market/practice group.
Not really. I only perceive them differently to the extent that they would likely have preferred a job at my firm but didn’t get it. I doubt the quality of lawyer is measurably different.
@associate1 I disagree. I live in a market where there is one Amlaw 100 firm and based on that firm’s cultural reputation I prefer my Amlaw 200 firm.
I don’t think so. They don’t pay market and for the most part I’ve never heard of many of the firms in the amlaw 200. It’s a lot of regional firms.
I’m not knocking it by any means. I’d much rather be a partner at a regional firm than most big law sweat shops.
Subject Expert
SA1 and A6, agreed, that’s often the case (lower standard billables, more BD and firm hours), but overall hours still usually end up higher than associate hours. At one of my firms partner target was specifically like 1600 standard plus 800 other for a 2400 total, while the associate target was 1900 standard. And as a partner, hitting hours is not enough, have to actually bring in enough business every year to hit their origination credit requirements and get their equity draw from the partnership.
Coach
I don’t, but there are definitely people on this app that do 😂
And above the law. They say “biglaw” about literally every firm
Mentor
I don’t follow AmLaw or care where my firm is in the list. I used to care about Vault because that seems to track reputation better. Now I don’t even care about that.
Mentor
I find a better metric is (total compensation) / (hours worked). The higher that ratio, the better the firm is, from an associate perspective.
Thanks for your thoughts everyone. I think the takeaway is what we all expected and have more or less said - that the rankings are just that, rankings. Each firm has its own pros/cons and it’s hard (and unfair) to generalize one way or the other. Substantive experience exists at some top firms and higher pay and hours exists at non-top firms.
How I see it is that we all passed the bar and are doing good work (hopefully) so it’s more or less the same at the end of the day.
Mentor
There are AmLaw 200s that pay above market
Subject Expert
Generally folks mean cravath scale when they say market.
Who cares?
Hopefully no one. :) I was just trying to understand what, if any, implications it could have on a large scale (say you’re trying to lateral).