Related Posts
Conversation Starter
Community Builder
More Posts
This guy has the worst posts…
Rising Star
For those asking where to donate
Why does Newark close tsa pre lanes? Terrible
Conversation Starter
Additional Posts in Accounting
Moving to atl- what are typical 1x1 rent prices?
press x to doubt
Utilization rate this time of year?
New to Fishbowl?
Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Public accounting will never be organized into a labor union. Never.
I agree with you, but I actually do want to hear people’s specific thoughts on this. I think it would be impossible to simultaneously organize all of the biggest firms, it would probably increase costs for clients at unionized firms, and those clients would likely hire a non union firm
Rising Star
Put in my 2 weeks last week. Getting a significant raise and bonus for less work. The firms think people are not going to leave during this time.
Same here. 18% raise at my new firm.
The whole PA industry is built on the premise that turnover churn will leave a core group of lifers remaining to move up the pyramid while a constant stream of fresh meat is plucked from target universities.
Those who would be amenable to unionization tend to leave for greener pastures while those who remain have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo as it disproportionately benefits them.
You have the power where you sell your labor. The firms have something unique and valuable that you want - experience. Lots of people want that and that sets the supply curve of labor. When people leave they are choosing to participate in a different labor market - often trading compensation for experience.
The current corona-driven recession has shifted both the supply curve of labor for both PA and the supply curve of other markets. (And demand curve for professional services). As a result normal turnover had gone done. The enterprise response is to manage costs, and try to preserve margin.
Big 4 and top mid tier firms are starting to realize that using covid as an excuse for no raises this year will not keep people around. Firms out there are still hiring and exposing how underpaid people are at these bigger firms.
Seconded
Don’t want it. To be honest, I realize that in reality, this job pays well. Yes, I know, I know, industry pays more, but for a lot of people, Big 4 gives opportunities they wouldn’t get otherwise. Tons of first generation college grads go into public accounting. I got a chance to move to NYC when I doubt I would’ve found an industry job in NYC coming from the state I was in before. Raises are double digits, your salary goes up pretty quickly. The job security is great. Most college grads can’t even get a job, let alone something that will pay them $80K in a few years.
Point is, everyone thinks they deserve more, but do you, really? Yeah we work a lot, but we’re not actually particularly skilled compared to other high paying professions. We’re not neurosurgeons or biochemists. If anything, I think consultants get paid way too much for making PowerPoints, but such is the market
Good points. I laughed out loud at consultants, but think about life as a staff 1. Starting salary is more than the nationwide $40,000 average across all age groups, and all they have to do is ctrl-c ctrl-v, look at invoices, and mess up all the formulas and links I added in PY to make the work paper easier
Chief
The business model for public accounting is cheap labor and more hrs at the bottom. It relies on turnover. One day our work will be half handled by AI, the other half in India or whatever the best outsourcing country will be ,and there will be very few US employees at that point. When that happnes, I can see public accounting unionize
Unions protect their old timers above all else. I have no interest in being involved in a union. I have seen close family members being sold out for a benefit to more tenured people. Thankfully this person was in a white collar job (in a government department) and easily rebounded after being laid off out of nowhere with ZERO notice at the same time that higher tier members got a raise... from a union job.
If you think you are being mistreated, then find another job. That’s easy for people in our positions. Unions do better to protect people who don’t have career mobility, although I don’t have a high opinion of unions myself. I think unions were desperately needed at a point in time and they eventually became corrupted like everything and everyone else that gets power.
I also think unions protect the worst of the worst far too often, which is very bad.
I started PA in Europe where they sort of have unions within Big 4 firms. It works well there, but can’t see the model transposed to the USA. This country is not culturally ready to see the concept of unions outside of low paid blue collar jobs. I was actually very surprised when I realized the lack of negative connotation attached to being “socialist” out there. The German or French models (who could sometimes be a bit hypocritical though) can’t work in our country (for now...). We’re not ready for a pro Bernie to lead a Fortune 500 company. Which is a common fact in Europe.
Could you give specifics on the French or German models that you do & don’t think will work in the US? I was previously unaware of those models for PA in Europe
No need for unions in PA.
@SA1 - depending on the size of the firm, there are legally mandatory union elections to designate representatives for staff below partners. The accountants union in France participated to national debate around the 35h work per week and negotiated up to 2 extra weeks of vacation to compensate the busy season crazy hours. Up until 2009 I think, PwC France was paying in cash the overtime hours accrued if you were to leave the firm with no possibility of taking those as day-offs. The union also negotiated discounts for movie tickets, restaurants, electronics...they would also help staff negotiate their severance package ...