Joined a firm (came from in-house) and a lot of the associates (mainly juniors) indicate they underbill. They’d rather underbill as it makes them look good for the partners, so they can be used more and increase the chances of them staying on. I see their point, but really? Shouldn’t the partner just write off the time they consider in excess? I have been working very slowly so far, as I’m not fully used to the rigors yet, so don’t know if I’m setting myself up for failure by underbilling.

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at

Feel bad for those associates because this messaging likely didn’t come from nowhere. The moral answer is bill what you actually work, yet friends at cheap firms have seen colleagues get punished/underutilized for doing so.

If you are deadset on staying at the firm (I personally wouldn’t), I would informally survey associates to get an honest picture of the real culture and how it aligns to partners and their clients (eg, EC clients are notoriously cost sensitive so partners with this book may push associates to underbill).

like

If a partner told me to write a memo in 8 hours I would give him the best memo i could research and write in 8 hours, which if necessary would include a section explaining what i would do if authorized to spend more time on it. They could fire my ass if they wanted to but thats what i would do.

Yeah that’s really dumb. Just bill what it takes you and do good work. When I have an associate “underbill” it makes me think they rushed the work.

like

I was having drinks with juniors the other day and it does seem some partners regularly ask folks to bill to BD numbers for billable work. I did my best to dissuade them of this.

like

Yeah I don’t know why people are attacking associates. I was at a firm where it felt like you got punished for putting down your full time and we all started under billing as a result

like

A counterpoint (sort of): at some firms, writing off much time at all is strongly discouraged and can cause firm leaders to go ballistic thinking associates are being inefficient and could be taking on more work if they were not. They want above 90% realization, 85% at the absolute outside, and perhaps that is what’s being broadcast (actually or implied).

I’m not at all saying that is a good way to run a firm, but I have worked at some very successful firms that operate that way, and therefore associates underbill as self-preservation. If that’s the case, might be a profitable firm but not a great place to work as an associate.

like

That shouldn’t ever be associates’ problem

like

I under bill, yet still have partners changing my billables to nonbilables because they don’t want to appear to be profitable enough.

like

Those associates are dumb. Don't listen to them

like

You have a clear path to partnership. Don’t leave. Natural selection.

like

You play the long game.

Related Posts

What is the salary range for D1 band in Capgemini for a lateral hire? Module: SAP

like

I am in the market for a Rolex, budget is 5k. Any recommendations pls

funnylike

Worth trading two Omegas for this Zenith chronomaster sport? Specifically a SMP300 white dial and an 1861 Speedmaster? Been eyeing this watch for a while but my policy is that watches must be moved to make room for anything new! No emotional attachments on the Omegas mentioned but they are great watches as well.

Post Photo
like

Any experience with Vermont service center H1B transfer recently without PP? Pls share timeline..

like

Thoughts on the following neighborhoods: 1) area south of Chatfield Lake; 2) Roxborough Park. We are a family with a middle school aged child (and late 30s). Thanks!

like

Any idea why certain of the larger biglaw firms do not allow descriptive associate website bios unlike the more middle v100 firms?

like

What's the size of TV that you use at your home?

like

Should Healthcare be considered as a business?

Any side hustle suggestions for an immigrant working in USA ??

like

Hello,

I joined
Nagarro 1.5 months back and yet haven't received some goodies like T-shirt etc. Have anyone else faced such delay post joining? Whom to reach out to in such situations?

Nagarro

Raymond James Independents, how do you like it? Are you using RJ models or creating your own? If you left Edward Jones, what’s different?What is better and what is worse? Loaded question, thanks.

likehelpful

I need some good career-development or finance-related books, anyone got any recs?

like

Today is the first day of the new work week! What are your goals for this week?

like

Anyone has given the BIE interview recently? If yes, can you please help me understand what sorts of questions were asked?
Amazon

like

My friend bought a nice condominium and his agent assured him that it had a garage. AFTER he signed the papers and moved in, the neighbors told him that the unit does not come with a garage. Can he sue the agent? He feels ripped off.

like

Anyone transfer from Canada to the states before? How hard/easy is the process?

like

EPM implementation to strategy whats the best path?

like

Any recommendations on credit cards with lounge access? Currently have the Chase Sapphire Reserve which has Priority Pass, but have been turned away from lounges not accepting PP at peak times

Hi Fishes,

I am a MBA-Finance professional with 10 years of experience in Handling Finance, Accounts and Taxation in SAP.

Please let me know if any job opportunities with your reference.

Thanks and Regards,

Suraj Amin

like

Additional Posts in Big Law

I work at a ‘free market’ firm and have developed a very good reputation among partners. Naturally, they are drowning me in work. Each time a new case comes up, the partner will email asking if I have “time and interest” in helping. When I’m at capacity, I take these words at face value and explain why I can’t do it, and that seems to work out ok with no hard feelings. But what’s the “interest” thing? If I don’t want to work on a toxic tort case, do I just say that and pass?

like

Extension “one final time” (through the election)

Post Photo
likefunny

Is it common for a midlevel to gossip with a first year about another first year’s work? Is it common for midlevels to trash juniors amongst themselves? I think my office is hella toxic

like

Maybe I’m just realizing I’m lazy… but do y’all ever get assigned an actual, hard research or drafting project and realize you don’t like the effort? Like plz let me go back to doc review.

likefunny

Beginning to consider going in house (4th, corp) - I really haven’t thought about what I want, partly because I’m not sure what’s out there/attainable. Is it a bad idea to start by applying to a couple positions that interest me and seeing where that gets me? I’ll of course prep for the interviews but am afraid to burn potential bridges if I ultimately decline because I’m still figuring things out.

like

Who’s working on the twitter acquisition? The dataroom has to be nuts.

likefunny

If you do billable work on a given PTO/vacation day, do you still count that day as vacation? Or do you get that vacation day "back"? Or do you only get the part that you billed "back"? (Or some other option.)

likefunny

Already spoke with a partner who wanted something done this morning for him to review and then we discuss again. Sent it to him about 4 hours ago. Should take him half an hour to review max. At what point can I check in with him to see when we can catch up so I’m not waiting in the office all day?

like

Looking for some encouragement. Has anyone here received an overall negative performance review or has been put on a development/performance plan and was able to turn things around for the better?

like

Any news from DPW? 🤔🤔

like

Which firms have no billable requirement and centralized staffing?

likeuplifting

Considering a jump from Chicago to New York. I truly love living in Chicago and how far this salary gets me but I definitely want to try to make it in New York.

The only problem is my significant other has a lot of negative opinions about New York. I ultimately want to return to DC but I feel like a few good years in New York would be really good for me. In terms of a place to live, where in Manhattan can I find a place that's similar to River North in Chicago?

likesmarthelpful

How hard/easy would it be to find a decent big law position after 3 years of SEC experience? Total 5 years atty experience. What will be the salary like?

like

Still want a recruitment bonus 👀. Lmk if you’re looking to lateral!

likesmart

Fish, I trust your advice. Anyone have leads or recruiter recs for SF biglaw litigation? Looking to lateral as a to-be second year, mostly antitrust/white collar.

like

Dreading my first year review. I don’t think I’ve done anything to make myself fireable but who knows! I think I have a lot to improve on though. What’s the mindset you take with you into reviews?

like

Hi boys & girls!

Joined a big firm (Big4) not long a go and starting to feel like I got a good grip on my current work.

I've always been very technical, so I think that the only thing I am missing now is making sales. (I really wanna make partner)

Can any seasoned lawyer share tips and materials (i.e. books) which can help?

Would it be a good idea to join a Social Club where potential clients spend time? (gym/tennis/paddel/events)

Any advice welcome!

like

Former big law associate here who burned out. Now a corporate inhouse counsel.

Been recovering and considering going back to actual legal practice.

I feel I need a new practice area.

One that impacts people’s lives and is meaningful, but where you don’t have to deal with disturbing facts and personal tragedies.

Any suggestions?

like

Lol a client just emailed saying they want to sign a $1.5bn deal (we are sell side) not at some point before or by, but rather ON CHRISTMAS DAY.

What the hell is wrong with people?

likefunny

Curious - would you consider a lateral move to a lower ranked firm if the practice group is higher ranked than at your current firm? In other words what’s more important - firm or practice group ranking?

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal