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If you mean that I am prioritizing my young children over this job then yes, I agree.
If you hire a lawyer and pay him tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to help you in often very important and stressful issues, would you want him to prioritize his children over his job? When you're at work, leave your home life behind or better yet, don't work.
Many want to work hard but they don't want to do work for their job all the time. They want to work hard for their job while they're at work, and put in effort for their friends and family outside of work.
I seldom see Associates in the office on Saturday or Sunday
I don’t know a single associate that doesn’t work Saturday/Sunday. Why should they be in office?
This assertion is rather old hat as older generations have been saying this for decades. You can google and find a montage of newspaper clips and headlines from yesteryear of the older generation bemoaning the work ethic of the younger.
A lot of these posts seem to be big law centric.
If paying top if the market compensation plus bonuses (that may equal or exceed what other lawyers make in a year) plus prestige plus promising future isnt motivating its workers enough then big law needs to re-think its recruitment approach.
Maybe talk to professional and college teams about how they evaluate who loves the game versus who wants to work hard enough to get that max contract and coast. Maybe do some psychological testing.
It’s really hard to be sympathetic towards places that have the ability to plan long-term, a recruitment budget, and lots of support/development staff but complain about their hires like they are University of Texas football players.
Most "young" people have enough sense to realize that a job is just a job and it is to BENEFIT YOU, and the partner's can't stand that because most of their life consisted of taking shit from seniors being underpaid and overworked so they want the same misfortune to fall upon every new lawyer as well . Your life's mission is not to benefit your job, they have the common sense clearly lacking in a bunch of partners considering their life goal isn't to suck up to a managing partner or firm that would kick them out on a moment's notice whenever they want. You should only put into a job what you're getting out, this isn't the 60s no need to ruin your life trying to prove your loyalty to a firm. I saw some Partner on the post complain about how young lawyers go to one firm, make a lot of money then change the firm to make more money..... yes it's almost like that's the point of a job.... to provide you a livelihood.....
Except it’s not just a job, it’s a career. If you’ve chosen to go to law school and work in big law and be highly compensated for that, you have to accept that consequence. What you said makes a lot of sense, but also it doesn’t. One, you had the choice to go flip burgers or take a regular 9-5 job and you didn’t. And two, it is a very selfish way to look at things. Your choices impact others. The law firm only works if clients are happy and someone needs to do the work. You’re saying - let others do it. And then act surprised when they complain.
I am a young new attorney and still do not have a job, which stresses me out beyond belief. Hearing a senior partner say that honestly enrages me. I want to work so badly, but almost every litigation-like position wants 3-5 years experience in general or for a specific area of law. My student loans require payment starting next month and I do not even know how to make the payment because my debt is around $310,000 and I do not have much income at all.
AA3, since you don’t have a job at all, I would just get started with a contract or temp position if you’re not willing to start at a small firm for lower wages. On the side, you should see if there are volunteer attorney positions - limited responsibilities like a VLFD (volunteer attorney for the day) program that allows you to represent or help a pro se litigant for the day (which could be morning court session or afternoon session).
I don’t know where you live but NYC has Access to Justice and CLARO programs that have helped so many people. There are also bar association programs that allow you to volunteer in court. Keep in mind, that NYC has over 8 million people in the city alone. The courts are flooded with pro se litigants that can use your help.
Testimony: Right after I passed the bar, though I was working as a legal secretary for a big firm on a temporary basis, once the firm found out that I passed the bar, they started looking for my replacement (which I had to train). So about a month later, I was out of a job. I went back to the temp agencies and I was placed as a contract attorney. But I desired litigation with in-court representation. I decided to split my time (contract attorney work and volunteer attorney work). Yes, at that time (over 10 years ago), I had to volunteer just to engage in oral advocacy in court.
The point is I had lots of debt, but I needed a job and I refused to sit still. I was raised to understand that generally, nothing in this life is given to you for free. At least get out there! These days, you cannot be too picky to start. Get your foot in a door, show that you’re willing to work hard, but keep looking. Have faith that a better door will open.
Thank you so much!
I ask this because I feel defeated. I feel I need some break. But these comments make me feel like I’m lazy and not capable.
All those senior partners say that they have 5 kids( maybe less , maybe more), none of them is a lawyer.
Only in part but agree that is the impression
Im in my 30s and I agree many junior and midlevel lawyers (but not all) act very entitled and sometimes brazen. I suppose the job market dynamics have been in their favor. You can graduate from a top law school, easily get a job at a top law firm, and then do a mediocre job for a couple of years, then move on to another firm and keep going for a little while longer. Some associates know that, and the ones that don’t want to make partner just take advantage of the system. Sometimes when i think about the mediocrity exhibited by some associates and their hourly rate being billed to the client, I find it mind boggling. Some of these folks barely use their brain all day. The standard really should be higher for people making this amount of money. I believe it’s also very specific to the US. I can tell you in most if not all foreign jurisdictions, you have to fight tooth and nail to get this kind of job and you’re expected to perform.
Examples have already been given on this thread but I’ll humor you. For example, telling the senior associate when a deal is really busy that you’ll be out of pocket from 9am on Saturday to 5pm on Sunday because you had a weekend trip planned. You’ve just made the senior’s weekend 2x worse (while also assuming they’d be happy to drop their own plans and pick up the slack) and lining up coverage doesn’t necessarily help
Somewhat agree but not all the young people. It's unfair to generalize i guess
to prioritize I've had to track down attys I saw many comments about how it's 24-7 accessibility now because of cell phones and tech. I started working in law in 1979 (an assistant). Back then, 70s and 80s and even early 90s, I've tracked down attys at restaurants, clubs, airport lounges, relatives houses, etc. Beepers were a thing. Attys spent more time in office. Clients called attys at home. Closings were in person. Worked a big closing out of town for a week. Got 8 hours sleep for the WEEK on that one. OT was nice, tho. So, no. No one works as hard anymore and that's a good thing. Its easier to deal with real emergencies with cell, emails and other tech. It's easier, but it's not easy. That's why attys get paid the big salaries once you hit 5th year when you finally know something.
Why work “hard” when one can work efficiently?
Rising Star
They aren't working efficiently either...
Rising Star
Yes
Nice try ATF