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Double ivy degree, 6 years in biglaw, and was tossed aside. This profession is so f*cking dumb.
biglaw is
Each time someone with a resume gap reaches out for help that never comes, it’s slowly but surely contributing to suicidal ideation. Please do what you can to help others who are struggling with gaps or to find employment. Seriously
This resonates so much with me. I'm an Asian American woman who was let go last year from a BL firm, also double Ivy League, and struck out after applying desperately for over 200 opportunities (law firm, gov, contract work, and in house) because of discrimination. I was on the brink of suicide until my parents dragged me home and forced me to take on other hobbies like baking and gardening to try to take me outside of my head. The pain and damage is real since I put my heart and soul into my job.
Mentor
“She applied. She networked. She tried so hard. And each rejection chipped away at something vital. Not just her confidence, but her sense of being wanted in this world.”
Oof. I struck out at OCI and am not sure I’ve ever felt so desperate as I did then, mass mailing literally hundreds of firms, hoping for anything, as I watched everyone around me celebrate their biglaw offers. People don’t often acknowledge that mass mailing also means mass rejections. Daily I’d get emails telling me no. It was bleak and I was unraveling too. I felt like not just a failure for being at a T14 and striking out, but now even small law firms were saying they didn’t want me. All my financial plans slipping through my fingers.
But, I was able to turn it around. I only got 1 offer that summer that was enough to keep me above water. But 1 was all I needed. Then through a bit of pluckiness and a whole lot of luck, still ended up in biglaw. But I could’ve very easily been in her shoes.
Don’t really know where I’m going with this. But this profession is brutal and I wish there were kinder people in it.
some of my law school classmates excommunicated me when i did not have a job lined up. this profession is filled with a certain type of people.
Subject Expert
Workplace mistreatment, from bullying to outright discrimination, can cause profound harm. If you’ve been on the receiving end, you know. It makes it hard to stay in the profession and to support oneself—which is probably why it’s done. I hope that we can work together and improve our profession so that we don’t have more senseless losses like this. My sincere condolences to all of Kathleen’s loved ones.
Subject Expert
I hope that her partner and family are consulting with employment discrimination lawyers.
I know a lot of us here are getting more concerned about layoffs which contributed to why I shared Kathleen’s story. I realize firms will justify more layoffs due to poor economic conditions/etc., but while we are all still here in this job (however long that may be) please try to be humane to each other
A young woman is dead, who might still be alive without the trauma of job loss, but at least some partners at known sweatshops Winston, O'Melveny and Latham made a couple more bucks.
Mentor
To be clear I have great sympathy for Kim here, and I am not defending big law as some healthy workplace. But I think it’s silly to call these three firms evil when (1) you do not have even an allegation of any specific conduct to criticize, much less evidence of evil conduct; and (2) the pattern here—3 separate terminations/departures in 3 years and unable to get a job for 2 years—indicates she had big law fit issues in general. Which to be clear again, is not a knock on her. Not fitting into big law is arguably a compliment.
I saw this post this week as I was wrapping up at work. It hit me hard because of how much I could relate to it and how recent all of it felt. This profession especially in certain markets can be very very cruel. Praying for peace for her loved ones.
(Also - anyone currently going through it, feel free to DM me)
Agree with this take. Working BL on the west coast is like a completely different job.
I hope that, in the wake of this tragedy, Latham ends its practice of having its associates committee approve associate terminations. This hand picked group always approves the termination. All this charade does is further humiliate the impacted associate, who knows that their fellow associates helped seal their fate.
It does have a purpose. It's to message internally that it takes an incredible amount of internal sign-off to be fired, so anyone fired was horrible and no one else should ever worry about being fired. Someone posted here a few months back claiming they were unfairly let go by Latham, and associates swarmed their post pushing that same point.
A lifetime of microaggressions will eat away at your self worth and make you wonder if anything unjust is because you are a WOC
One can only hope this story stops biglaw from being the meat-grinder that it is. If the buck stops here, her loss won't be in vain. Reading and writing shouldn't be this difficult.
Agree with A7
This really hit home for me. I’m Asian American and started out at a very toxic firm. I dealt with microaggressions constantly and was treated terribly. There were honestly times when I felt suicidal. Therapy helped a lot, and I eventually got out. Over time and through different firms, I’ve grown a lot—both as a lawyer and as a person. No one should have to go through what we did. Some firms are definitely better than others, but Big Law as a whole can be a really hostile place for POC.
This resonates much. Also Asian female but also coming from a different culture without family money. The recklessness and cruelty certain partners have shown to me in particular almost killed me. Asians in general are dealt with a lot of micro aggressions to begin with, but it gets to a different level when you are clearly an outsider socioeconomic-wise. Some people in a position of power in this profession actively look for ways to harm people and take pleasure from it.
This resonates with me also (I’m openly lesbian). Most people mean well but sometimes the issue is the folks that are the problem, don’t realize they’re the problem. They prefer to work with people more similar to them, without realizing it and scrutinize them less and give them more leeway/ chances/ responsibility. And sometimes that will be enough for you to lose traction and start to stumble in the rankings. I’m so sorry for Kathleen. Let’s all make an effort to bring more kindness and understanding to our profession. And to strive to bring out the best in each other instead of searching for reasons to bring people down.
I have a feeling there’s more to this story—there always is—but very sad regardless and I relate to it strongly.
This job is everything to me. I wouldn’t have lasted anywhere close to two years in her shoes.
L1, if you ever need to chat, I am here. Life is a gift and can offer magic at times, as well as grief and sorrow. But, it’s all part of the experience and in a way the grief and sorrow are to be appreciated as well. I hope you realize that your life will take many twists and turns and the hopelessness of one moment is not an indication that such hopelessness will remain indefinitely. Moving our bodies is also helpful for changing our mindset. Forcing your mouth into a smile when you can remember to do so can also impact your present moment. Hang in there.
I’m so sorry to read this. In a recent 3-year period, Dechert had two attorneys die suddenly, and at least one other attempt/threat by an at-risk colleague that I was aware of. The emotional stress from bullying and the threat of an unfair layoff is real and serious. There are firms, jobs and good colleagues elsewhere that don’t make you feel this way.
SA2, do people know who is in the associates committee? So they do this survivor vote off the island thing?
Isn’t this now very risky given the professional/personal liability links?
It's not like Survivor. They are just rubber-stamping decisions already made by higher ups.
Subject Expert
If anyone needs it, you can text HOME to 741741 to connect with a volunteer Crisis Counselor from Crisis Text Line. Free, confidential, 24/7.
If you can recommend other hotline resources, especially for lawyers, please share below. Thank you.
Very sad story. Let’s all remember this: I don’t need this job for validation. This job doesn’t define me. I don’t need to prove my worth to anyone. No matter how low my hours are, whether I get good or bad reviews, I‘ll be fine. It’s nothing more than a means to an end. It’s just a game we are playing.
It is a very cruel profession indeed. It’s not only the stress and the hours, but the toxic work atmosphere that can make it unbearable at times. And I really don’t understand those that contribute to this toxic atmosphere. How do they sleep at night?