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As always this topic is going to break down to a simple argument with a lot of legitimate feeling and hurt around it. If you are core pro-2nd amendment it's because you believe that an armed citizenry is essential to prevent government oppression. I'm not talking minor government oppression I'm talking WWII Germany, communist China and Russia, genocide type oppression. The cost of this belief is that things will happen in an armed society which might (key on might) not happen in an unarmed society. Lives will be lost that might have been saved because we have an armed populous. Anyone claiming otherwise is being disingenuous. In contrast the "pro" side of being pro-2nd amendment will never be evident as the worst won't happen. (Hopefully) The US will never see a time when their government straight up murders a significant portion of their people.
If you don't support the 2nd amendment, or do for other reasons that that listed above. You might not consider the immediate cost in lives lost to be worth the hypothetical prevention of a government gone rogue. It's always going to be entirely possible you are correct and the US government would never reach a state where mass murder was part of its plan. It's also possible you are horrendously wrong.
So in the meantime what can we do. Firearm regulation and registration are restrictive to the basic argument pro 2nd. If the government knows who has all the guns and how many they have the government is a lot less restricted. Plus legal owners of firearms have a lower rate of criminal record than the general populous. Illegal firearms or illegally accessed firearms are going to be more prevalent in a society with a large number of firearms.
To me the most logical steps are preventative. Locked doors, armed guards, but there is a tremendous expense associated with that for an event which in-spite of it's horror is still statistically very rare. (the odds of it happening to you).
It is what it is. 50 years ago this wasn't a problem and the gun situation hasn't really changed. So what has and what can we do about it. Attacking the guns as a the source of the problem might (and it's a big might) help the "immediate" issue of school shooting but that looming "what if" of a government gone homicidal still remains. If you don't think it can happen read a history book. If you don't think it will happen we won't know unless you win and your proven wrong. In which case the death toll will be far above anything we have seen so far involving public shootings.
Rising Star
Just happy this kids father is charged on multiple fronts including murder, we need accountability right? I’m cool with parents paying the price!
No.
Mostly because shootings are all over the place. Wal-Marts, clubs, schools, churches, and sports venues.
So unless you are willing to build a fortress off grid or live in a place that doesn't have any guns; it is just the reality.
Rising Star
Wait! Since when do we care about infringement of rights? 🤥 And, yeah- okay…my God protect that 2nd amendment, but to what degree is my question. I’m really interested. And, I read enough to know that over half over ‘responsible’ gun owners want real legislative change; but I also know y’all think your a responsible gun owners. 🙄 so did the clown of a father in TN. We’re on the side of stupidity at this point. When we say ‘responsible’ gun owner, what exactly does ‘that’ mean anyway? If enough kids are getting their hands on dad’s guns (pls don’t forget suicides by gun), then …I think that word ‘responsible’ gun….. is really getting sloppy and tired, it’s so watered down it’s ridiculous. But okay, can’t mess w the ‘responsible’ gun owners (one day responsible bc nothing happened, but the next day when your kid goes on a classroom hunt your not responsible?) Okay- Since the school did have warning of this catastrophe and did not go on lock down- maybe the families should sue the begeezes out of the district.
You just can’t send your kid to school one day for them to never come home. That’s not the America that I choose to live in so yes, I’ll do whatever I can. Voting is most important 🇺🇸
It's absolutely heartbreaking. What hurts even more is knowing that the prevailing response will not be to protect kids, but to pray for them and protect guns. There are a lot of reasons I plan to leave education next year, and this is one of them.
Rising Star
Actually, 385 mass shootings this year per the record that I can find. Don’t forget to add the KY shooting too, which is the most recent shooting.
https://amp.marca.com/en/lifestyle/us-news/2024/09/04/66d8c5c4ca47418e1f8b458a.html
I grew up with guns in my home. They were not locked up. We didn't have these issues during that time and guns were every where to use. Here in MN schools have dropped from 9 to 19th in the last two years. Gov. Walz was a teacher and since in office, our children's test scores have dropped immensely and only 59% can pass standardized testing. Schools are no longer teaching what helps our children be educated and compete with other nations from taking our high paying jobs! Our education system, our government and some parents are failing our children. It's not guns. Children are depressed and confused about who they are, who they should be and what life is really about. God has also left our homes and schools. I may never have a grandchild because my daughter does not want to raise a child in this insane country! All of my nieces and nephews are homeschooling because they refuse to have their young children be taught what schools are teaching now. You really need to open your eyes if you believe that guns are the problem.
Rising Star
I fully support legally charging parents who act irresponsibly in terms of parenting. If you give your young child an automatic weapon and that child murders multiple ppl and injures many more- lock the parents up. It’s called accountability. Parent responsibility was taken seriously in the MI case w theCrumbly’s, as both parents are now serving a15 year sentences. Thank you, Karen McDonald, prosecutor. They were found guilty by a jury of their peers. This case in Georgia will be another groundbreaking case!
No, it doesn't keep me from working in education. I have too many responsibilities. I have been in schools that have had legitimate Lockdowns. I have had bomb threats called to my house by students. Was I concerned? Yes. But I am a single parent with special needs children, one still living at home. I need to make a living to support us.
Does breathing and living make you pause? You walk down the street of Manhattan and get stabbed, or waiting for the subway, and get pushed into the tracks, does that give you pause? Want to make you quit living? No, you go about your day.
Thoughts and prayers......It's too early to talk about his.........don't politicize this.................they are just acting............ad nauseum nonsense. The news said today that there was in incident in the past where the kid and his parent made some sort of threat online. But, there was no "probable cause". I'm thinking now that there should be zero tolerance for this activity, even online with no credible threat. No joking matter.
Pro
I completely agree. And, the school also should have been on lockdown when the threat was called in.
You know reading the comments...I realize this is why the future of America is so bleak....
It's like only 1% of Americans have enough sense to realize there is a problem and maybe JUST MAYBE we should do something about it.
While everyone else is drone for the American government normalizing all this evil
Rising Star
NJ, you may have noticed that your credentialism doesn't impress anyone. You consistently try to position yourself as the smartest person in the room, yet never even attempt to grace us with your great depths of knowledge. You remind of the "Dale" car scam of the early 70s. Fancy exterior to fool the casual onlooker who doesn't bother to look under the hood.
Pro
So, frantic right-wing deflection from the problem... check.
Michigan is like New Jersey. Neither of them are prepared to actually discuss an issue based on facts or reasoning, so they resort to mockery and logical fallacies.
I actually think this is a result of living in an echo chamber media-wise. If you spend your time completely ignoring or discounting other points of view, you won't be able to effectively address arguments against your own assumptions. If someone thinks that John Oliver is some kind of towering intellect dropping truth bombs on evil people who want to make everything awful, then it is hard to formulate a response to people who don't follow the script.
I would recommend focusing like a laser on issues and facts rather than personalities and insults. What I said above was an analysis of behavior, but it was not intended to be insulting. I don't always follow that advice, but I would be a better communicator if I did.
Insults don't persuade people. Sometimes the person you are persuading is lurking without comment. Michigan is unlikely to persuade anyone with a simple "check".
It makes me wish that we took better care of the mentally ill in this country. We stigmatize them. We tell teachers to deal with them (without mental health training). But we don’t take care of them and help them heal. Teachers are aware and try their best but many times it’s even kept from them that the child has the mental illness. It’s should be a concern of society instead of ignoring it until it becomes a crisis
Rising Star
“You can evade reality, but you can't evade the consequences of evading reality.” Rand
This is one reason I prefer to work as an online tutor at this point 😔
Pro
4 dead; 2 teachers, 2 students. Up to 30 injured with 9 thus far hospitalized. The shooter is 14 yrs old!
Texas Elementary School 1 Every country has kids with mental health issues. No other country has multiple school shootings every year. Because one party refuses to do anything to limit anyone's access to high powered weapons, or to fund mental health care.
One party.
No. There are lots of other reasons not to teach.
Rising Star
Are you considering that fact that there aren’t enough mental health providers out there to fill the jobs out there?
We also have to keep in mind how the states are doing in terms of providing access to mental health care for its residents, for example- TX is one of the worst states in terms of access to health care. If ppl don’t have access to mental health resources that’s a state issue and a real roadblock. Voting the right people in office is essential.
1. Easy access to firearms
2. Limited access to mental health care for those who need it
3. Not enough ppl going into mental health therapists role; we have a national shortage just like teachers, making for long weight lists.
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/south-texas-el-paso/news/2024/05/13/texas-again-ranked-the-worst-state-for-mental-health-care-
Rising Star
Apparently not everyone is in therapy and drugged. Remember…385 ppl to 1 therapist.
Maybe the Georgia shooter who was all of 14 yo could have used some of that therapy you seem to know so much about, and as a music teacher none the less. Or maybe he should have been on one of those drugs like everyone else. Now the father is s facing four charges of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second-degree murder and eight counts of cruelty to children bc he gifted his minor child a high powered gun for Christmas. Not sure why you can’t see where the problem lies. People don’t see what the don’t want to see.
.
Yes.
No, not where I live and teach. If I lived in the middle to large size Blue Cities that don’t want honest citizen to have the right to defend themselves, may be. Violence is more determined by city policy than state policy in many circumstances.
Rising Star
Just wait. You’re not special… it will happen!
Rising Star
🙄
Theres nothing against the 2nd amendment with regards to gun regulations including age and type of purchase. There’s nothing against a waiting period or lots of other mitigation measures needed. Gratefully, the majority of the population including those who believe in the 2nd amendment want changes too. The USA is the most innovative, powerful country in the world yet we are failing terribly. I’m just so happy that Gen Z and Gen Y and younger ppl are taking the lead, using their voices, and advocating for change. Most ppl do not want a country where kids are terrified to go to school bc they’ll be annihilated by a AR15 or similar high powered weapon.
The 14 yo Father is charged and charged heavily! Hallelujah 🙌🏼👏🏼
You’re safer there than being an opponent of the deep state