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I always use Ms. for women in a professional setting and thought most do. They did in the military anyway.
I frequently get called “Mrs.” in emails from people who I haven’t met. I am not married and even if I was, they wouldn’t know that. I’m engaged and I don’t plan to change my last name, so I will still be Ms. I’ve had everyone from older men to younger women do it, so it’s not necessarily a generational thing. It drives me nuts!
@MD1: Calm down… women keeping their own name is not offensive or about making a statement at all. It’s very common nowadays. Why does it make you so irrationally angry?
I plan to keep my own name. It’s convenient. Also, where my parents immigrated from, all women keep their own names.
Enthusiast
Tough to change traditional marriage/ titles/ etc. Perhaps start with getting more women to propose to men? Women buying the engagement ring for men?
Enthusiast
My point is women proposing and buying an engagement ring is not traditional or usual. It happens, I’m sure there’s a small portion of women that have done it. But usually men do this. My whole point is that it is very hard to undo/change traditions (i.e married women being referred to as Mrs vs a married man being called Mrs.).
I’m married but have always used Ms.
Since I make all travel reservations and kept my maiden name, my husband gets called Mr. <my last name> all the time.
MD1 nope, it’s a bit awkward that they just assume a last name
A lot of things are dumb when you look at it after a few hundreds years.
I want to know if a guy is married or not. Can it be Mister if unmarried and Mr. if married?
Enthusiast
SC1, traditionally the title for an unmarried man is Master and married is Mister. But Master is hardly a PC term these days either.
Except that Ms. already doesn't indicate marital status. You are thinking of Miss vs. Mrs. I think this distinction has already mostly died out, as further evidenced by this post.
AA1, I agree that Mrs. shouldn’t be used in a professional setting, but unfortunately it’s been used for me (even though I’m unmarried) many times. I’m in the mid-Atlantic for context.
…this is one of the dumbest things you can think of about society?
Fair point🤣
I have used MS. since I was 18. I am married 20+ years. And do not care. Ms or nothing
Chief
Traditionally it was Master and Mister and both were shortened to Mr. Miss and Missus for women but shortened to Mrs. But Master was retired due to racial connotation.
Anyway, on that note let me introduce you to the Bates family from 1800s. Meet the father Mr. Bates, the mother Mrs. Bates, the daughter Ms. Bates and the son - Master Bates.
Chief
Mistress if you go even beyond 1800, like 1500s which was actually used for royal ladies.
But then mistress became the “2nd lady”, the one for women became Missus
That’s just a western thing, it’s not even a norm for women to change their last name in most of the world.
I think the usage and importance of those descriptors has greatly diminished over my lifetime. Two decades ago, people at my firm were still getting called Mr X. School teachers these days are asking parents to call them by their first names. Etc. so I would say society is moving in the direction OP desires.
Enthusiast
“Mr. Andrew Bernard. Has a nice ring to it.”
Pro
Unpopular opinion: I love being a Mrs.
I’m sure you do, that’s my point🤣 marriage is supposedly the status women should be distinguished by. We have separate titles the same way there’s titles for what degree you earn (for example MD > PA). If status hierarchy (Mrs. > Ms.) weren’t involved, there would be no need for a separation. For men, it doesn’t matter to society if they’re married, so there’s no title difference.
My wife is a teacher she always used ms. And continues to do so
Rising Star
Agreed!
Chief
So do you advocate Ms for all or Mrs for all? I thought diff is in part of the fact that husband's last name was taken.
Enthusiast
Which is just another man’s name. This whole patriarchy thing has been operating for a very long time