I was let go from my position yesterday. The managing partner, who did the letting go, said it as because of poor development and bad work product. Yet, only in December, I got a solid raise and excellent bonus for my size firm. Between then, the partner had made unsupported claims of bad work (e.g., claimed I used the wrong code in a letter bc it wasn’t the one he told me to use but the one the documents supported). Never dreamed of being “fired.” All partners are holding the party line and ...

likehelpful
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at
Highlighted IconHIGHLIGHTED

Something better for you lies ahead I’m
Sure. Just do your best.

like

That’s all we can do, right? Thank you!

like

Did not have it quite this bad but years ago was in a similar dynamic with a really successful partner who was also a prolific gaslighter that developed nobody, left a trail of bodies, and drove away tons of highly competent associates over the years. Sooner or later everyone in this type of persons sphere of influence ends up in the cross hairs. Some are fired, but most are just gaslit until they quit or move onto work for someone else while the firm just buries it under the rug and does nothing about it. Cash and the status quo are king.

Is this an isolated incident or has it happened to other people?

likehelpful

I didn’t realize how much damage it caused until recently. It made me needlessly distrustful of the good people I currently work with for quite some time, but I eventually snapped out of it. That’s what being gaslit does to people, and these firms who let it happen deserve what’s coming to them.

like
Recent IconRecent

I have not been in this position, but wanted to send positive energy your way.

likefunny

Thank you!

Is there no attorney there that would supply a reference? In a way, you were let go at the right time. I’ll get back to that. First: did anyone complain between Dec & now about your work? If so, did they provide support to help you improve? If so, maybe you’re not a good fit at THAT firm & that’s ok. If no to any of that, then they are just making up an excuse. Second: going back to timing. These are crazy Covid times. Can you ask another attorney (non-partner) for a reference? If so, you can say in an interview that the partners overrated their ability to thrive during Covid but are not willing to accept that, therefore, I can provide references from other attorneys at the firm. If not, just say the first part: partners overestimated their ability to thrive. And you can add: just like so many businesses around the world. Covid has really taken a toll on business but the fact that this firm is hiring and interviewing makes me think the people here know how to successfully manage a law firm through difficult times ... etc.

You will be ok & I have faith in you.

like

This is exactly how I would handle it in future interviews

like

UPDATE from OP: Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and stories and well wishes. The collective information was crucial for me in my search for a new job. I accepted an offer for a great firm yesterday. Good pay raise and, more importantly, the opportunity to work with great people. I’m also now fully remote. So that is a new challenge.

likeuplifting

That's freaking awesome

like

I am so sorry this happened to you. It seems like they wanted to fire you for cause so they don’t have to pay a severance, which is absolutely not okay on part of your firm. Which year of practice are you?

I don’t think references are absolutely necessary. I’d suggest to start networking and sending emails to partners at other firms you’d like to work at, schedule virtual coffee/phone calls, share your experiences. If you can, also get a recruiter on the side to find you unpublished openings at firms.

I know it feels like all is lost, but i am confident something better is in store for you. Don’t lose hope, keep looking! Sending virtual hugs. (And don’t hesitate to share how you feel with people you love, it’s always easier to get through difficult times with a little help and support)

likehelpful

Mid level! Thanks for the kind words and networking tips. I’m on it

likesmart

... have refused to provide any reference. (Even as to a successful trial where I 1st chaired.)

I’m lost and am feeling defeated. I feel like I was not given an opportunity to grow and the firing partner had made his decision more than a month ago.

Has anyone been in this type of position and made it back? Left the law? Tips on getting another job without the strength of a reference? Thanks, all.

likehelpful

So sorry this happened to you and everything related. Please reach out to your contacts. Keep applying and continue to reach out to your friends, mentors, professional contacts, do you and try to take some time to enjoy yourself. Yes - I’ve been there. Yes - it was depressing, I felt defeated, negative, and mad at myself. Lean on your network. You will land on your feet please keep us posted.

like

Also wanted to send positive energy your way ❤️ While definitely not the same, I've been laid off before. It sucks, but it's an excellent opportunity to move on and prove them wrong.

Don't take what they said too personal. If you know you did your best there and crushed it, then don't doubt yourself, your skill set, or what you have to offer to another firm. Best of luck moving forward!

likehelpful

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words 🙏🏽

Are you SURE no one said anything racist/sexist/anti disability/anti LGBT/ageist/national-origin-ist to you? 🤔 would be a shame if you had to sue their asses.

like

Ha! Believe me, I’ve been carefully racking my brain.

likefunny

This happened to me at an AMLAW firm. Parter was a quintessential gas lighter. Nothing she did was wrong but everything she told her associates to do (if it went the wrong way) was wrong and associates would get blamed. Absolutely horrendous person.

Anyways, I got fired and lateraled to another AMLAW firm where I have never been happier. This post is mostly to let you know that you are not alone, you will make it through, and do not settle for the next position to just to get a job. Be purposeful and try to chose a firm/role in which you are appreciated. Feel free to DM me for the things that I looked for as red flags on my hunt.

I read you have sat first chair in trials and seem to be experienced. Leverage that and just let go of this shit human who let you go. You are more than likely a competent attorney who would be an asset at another firm.

likehelpful

Oh also - to the extent possible try to negotiate remaining on the firms website for as long as possible so you can still say you currently work there on your resume. I believe I negotiated 4 months.

I am going through a pretty similar thing, and it really, really sucks. I don’t have super promising news (still job hunting 3 months later with a really strong resume) but want you to know you are not alone and wanted to let you know that, unfortunately, a lot of lawyers are willing to do shady, awful things like this to their subordinates. It is 100% not you. I’ve had some luck getting references from a former partner who left the firm and from a former co-counsel partner on a trial I was on.

like

I had a similar experience. I worked at a legal aid org in my first law job post bar, and the executive director (a non-attorney...there is a loophole in my state’s RPCs that allows legal aid orgs to be led by non-attorneys) forced me out for “poor performance.” The vast majority of my cases successfully settled, and the only thing I got chastised for by any superior beforehand was for using Microsoft Word and not a comically outdated version of WordPerfect in drafting my docs.

Oh, this also happened 6 weeks before my wedding.

Fortunately, I had a few irons in the fire, and had been interviewing here and there. One of my non-supervisor coworkers was willing to give a reference, and I had also applied for a judicial clerkship on the suggestion of a friend awhile before. I was let go by the legal aid org on Friday, interviewed for the clerkship on Tuesday, and then was offered it on the following Friday. And the clerkship paid 30k more than I was making at the legal aid org.

I had a successful clerkship for a year and a half, and have now been in my state’s AGs office for about another year and a half. I also got married as planned and we’re still happy and have a baby girl who’s perfect in every way.

Meanwhile, that legal aid org has been on life support, and COVID has made it that much worse. I’ll be shocked if it’s still around a couple years from now.

So, the biggest thing I would suggest is, leverage your network. Call on your friends and get people who have your back to help you out. It might not happen as quickly for you as it did in my case, because I was already looking somewhat at the next step, but I have found that people in the legal community do generally like to help their friends in need. That, and karma is a real thing. This kind of behavior that your managing partner and firm showed will get around, and people will take note of it.

likesmart

Happened to me-- not as extreme though. File for unemployment, talk to recruiters, and enjoy some time to recharge and refocus. I ended up having a 5 month break before starting at a firm that was a much, much better fit. You are capable of doing good work, you just need to find a firm that will give you what need / not get in the way so that you can reach your full potential. Good luck!

like

I was let go before. When applying you can be VERY generic. The firm was having financial difficulties etc didn't have room for me to grow. Very few are actually going to check if that makes sense.

like

Likewise, my firm higher ups have been acting super shady lately and I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

like

Also get a running list of cases you worked on and save it. A new job will require conflict checks.

likesmart

I was in a similar situation, but I had already started looking for another job. Reach out to solid contacts who may be familiar with your work product. I never thought I’d get fired either, and my boss wrote on my passers that it was “performance related” even though I’d gotten a raise the month before, always had good reviews, and was heavily involved with a successful $40M verdict on a jury trial that ended the month before. It can be done and references weren’t necessary because I went somewhere I had contacts.

like

O yeah, and if anytime was a good time to be fired it would be now. Money from Unemployment is higher than its ever been.

likefunny

Wow 👏🏻

like

Hey OP how are you doing?

like

Was going to post an update! Got a job!

likeuplifting

I started my own firm. All you need is a website, find a local and national association that does the work you do and join up. Sign up for referral services like Martindale Hubble(it's shit, but it'll get you at least 3 good leads over 6 months).


If you don't want to start your own firm, just apply to other firms. I know plenty of ppl that have been fired and they just got others jobs. Firms need bodies. You'll be fine.

like

Sorry to hear this and I do empathize with you. I suggest when applying for other positions and when the question comes up, about why you were let go, consider saying you were let go because of a difference of professional opinion. Keep it neutral. It was an experience and you’ve learned from it. Much success to you!!!

like

Related Posts

Hi All,

Mindbody (US-based) Product Company is hiring for below positions in Pune Location.

DM for referrals.

Post Photo
like

Hi, what is a standard compensation package for Corporate & Investment Banking Associate Coverage Group/ Relationship Management in New York City? Also, do you recommend such group in IB, is it a good move from consulting?
Thank you

like

PwC Advisory or EY FSO for M level role?

likehelpful

What should I expect when trying to exit into a more competitive (geographical) market?

My home office is in a developing country (think non-EU/US, G20), I’m looking at Biz Ops/PM roles in tech in Western Europe. How much should I expect to be able to leverage my consulting/McKinsey background in this context?

like

I had the on-site interview with 3 interviewers at Amazon, how can you tell if you pass or gonna get rejected? It was for a recruiting coordinator position

like

What comp can we expect to target after 2 YOE? I’m not miserable in consulting but don’t think I get paid enough. With my promotion in a month, I’ll be hitting 100k and I want to only leave if I can get 110k or more (going for strategy, PM, and a few startup roles). Is that realistic? whens the best time to leave for max comp in the long term?

like

How to politely inform your manager that their meetings are complete time-wasters? I end up working late hours because the work still has to get done. Promotion year so not trying to drop the ball lol

likefunny

Hi Fishes, Can someone please refer me for lead Analyst position in Wells Fargo Bengaluru location. I have 8+ years of experience with SAS and SQL as primary skills and need to relocate to Bengaluru. Thanks in advance.

Thoughts on becoming a "Growth & New Initiatives PM"?

I was a regular PM managing my own vertical and now have the opportunity for a new role in the org. No promo or cash related, just jurisdiction wise.

I'd be focusing on:
For old product-
-Free Trial
-automation
For new product-
-Building out from scratch
-UI/UX related user feedback
-sales and marketing focus
-use cases and features

Is this a good move career wise? Love being a PM and looking to grow.
Prefer new product > old

like

What is the approximate salary of a senior associate in pwc?

like

Looking to apply for a Product Manager position at Google. Have done similar (but not the same) types of work in consulting for the last 6 yrs.

Know that I’m getting ahead of myself, any suggestions on what to teach myself/learn to best position myself before even applying?

like

Hi fishes, I have 2 offers-
Thermo Fisher for Data Engineer in AWS and Python and Ameriprise as Lead Developer for Informatica Powercenter. Ameriprise is offering 50k more in my monthly salary than Thermo Fisher. My preference is to join in where I can grow and get a good learning for future career growth. Also, work life balance should be good in the organization.
Please help me with making a clear decision. And i have 8+ YOE.

like

Hello fishies - I just finished an interview with amazon yesterday with a manager in the team ( mainly asked 1-2 behavioral questions and the rest audit questions). Would there be additional interviews after this or after this do they decide to give me an offer or not? This is for an auditing role.

like

Seeking advice on what to do career wise.

I’m still in my first year at Deloitte as a campus-hire. Feeling like this position isn’t for me, not fully enjoying what I’m doing, don’t feel like my coworkers value my work/me (I only work with men), and feeling like I am not getting adequate opportunities to grow my knowledge/experience in the work I do and also cross-department opportunities.

Should I wait it out and see? How do I get connected to try different things at the company?

like

Guys .. has salary credited for you?

like

Hi friends! Can anyone recommend me for SFDC Senior Project Manager position?

like

At what level, would one start getting technical questions in an interview for an industry position? - manager? SM?

like

Anyone worked as an AE for Gartner? Got an offer for the Government team. Any insights on the role and culture? Are the targets realistic? Good room for growth? Thanks

like

Investment bankers have been sitting around doing nothing for the last two quarters. Revenues down 25-50% across all the major banks. Yet no word of significant layoffs or hiring freezes. Is the job market somehow still hot for IB?

like

Trying to establish a resume entry for a supporting project manager role. The rope did not require the full PM scope such as financials, but did cover almost all else. I don’t want to oversell it, but would like to take credit.

like

More Posts

Hey Fishes,any insights on what is the highest pay range which EY GDS offers for external hire Assistant Manager - SaT FDD Practice for CA with 2 Years PQE in Audit ?
Current CTC - 10.5L

like

Received email based offer letter 3 weeks ago. Do they share the workday offer towards the end of joining date? My joining is in July.
Do we need to follow up? @iqvia

like

Does anyone know a hidden gem for dress shirts and suits? I haven’t found a good place that sells the clothes with the slim fit I like for cheap. H&M is like the closest place I found that is cheap & slim fit but it’s not that great if you’re 6’2 or taller … I’m guessing the best option will be to find a local tailor 🤔

likehelpfulfunny
like

Does anyone know what industries / competencies got hit by the layoffs yesterday? A few people mentioned it, but no one gave any details.

like

Any other big law office managers on here who are figuring out hybrid work schedules for staff, or already implemented them? Would love to chat.

like

Taking REG in a couple of weeks! What kind of SIM did you guys have?

like

How much difficult it is to switch from Microsoft IDC to Microsoft USA by applying through IJP.

like

Hi fishes...I had quoted my expected CTC as 22 lpa to Citi , I am still awaiting their offer. However now I have another offer in hand with 21.2 lpa fixed with variable of 7lpa. How much more can I ask from Citi . YOE 6.9 yrs CTC 16

Is there any stable project in Brillio with less/no micro management and work life balance ?

Has anyone taken a leave of absence for mental health/suicide/depression? I’m getting there but I’m also the primary earner in my house.

like

TCS Hr revised my ctc to 27.5lpa from 24lpa for C3A band & shared ctc break up. I negotiated asking him to revise the fixed comp to 26lpa & JB. He said that he would try for fixed comp of 26lpa but no JB. Later he came back saying he can't get an approval for 28lpa & asking me if I'm okay with 24lpa & he would try to get 24lpa also if possible. Is he trying to get the ctc down or does he can't get approval? How do I get him to give the 27.5lpa break up offer? YOE:9y6m Role:Infra ManagerTata Cons

Post Photo
like

So what companies should I work for to be considered successful? MBB, FAANG, what else?

funnylike

Hi,

I want WFH to extend it for a few more months but I'm not vaccinated but they are forcing me to take it to come to office for work. Can anyone help me in this to extend my WFH culture plz.

2nd Cousin has a Mexican boyfriend of 4 months and is 3 months pregnant - did not have conversations with her mother or her sister, close cousins before going forward. She’s feeling the lash back of a mother who’s looking to influence her decision and get an abortion before she starts this life. There are definitely some red flags with the guy with his income and that he doesn’t speak English, curious what others would do - what would your parents say? Mine would flip!

like
like

I need a career mentor for the tech industry!!!

like

LTI-Larsen and Toubro Infotech is looking for Experience professionals in Cloud. Interested can DM with their Email Id, Years of Experience and Job Code.

#LTI #Cloud #AWS #devops #GCP #hiring

Post Photo
like

What’s the average salary for EY GPS Experienced Staff?

Additional Posts in Litigation & Arbitration

I’m a midlevel who recently joined a new firm where my group is very busy, so my teams encourage pushing work down to junior associates. Seems great, but the problem is that whenever I give a junior associate a drafting assignment that’s not rote document processing, I have to redraft the entire thing and it takes just as long or longer than if I had done the work myself. I try to ask them to revise when I can, but we often don’t have time for more rounds of that. How can I handle this better?

like

I love a sassy email, especially if I’m only copied because attorney-client privilege attaches 😝

likefunny

Need advice. I’m panicking. Missed deadline to respond to the Complain, for a matter pending in the Eastern District of CA. The deadline was Friday (1/29). Today plaintiff granted an extension to respond the Complaint. I’m filing a stip tomorrow in the am. I’m worried because the stip is clearly filed after the original deadline. This is my first time missing a deadline. Talk me off a ledge.

like

Anyone have a good website vendor? My firm is looking to change the website design

like

In a tiny (only $52,000 in damages) litigation matter that should have been a simple trial on a simple issue (breach of contract), OC has filed 9 unsupportable motions, 7 of which had prayers for fees, including one claiming an ethics violation by me. All overruled. OC's latest brief in opposition to our motion to compel is a 13-page, babbling, word-salad mess with 126 pages of exhibits. It does not address our arguments and any 1L could have written a better brief. Judge should punish her!

likefunny

Anyone use a specific software/app to extract text messages? If so, any recommendations?

like

Tips on snacks/drinks that keep you going during trial?

like

Just started at a new firm today. Yearly billables are 1900. Since I started 2 months into the year, do I need to hit the 1900? To recoup the first two months of the year means billing 190 a month.

like

I want a book to help me think more critically about structuring sentences, paragraphs, and legal arguments - and to eradicate poor grammar. I want to improve my legal writing. Any recs? I’m a litigator.

like

I’m a sr litigation assistant at a boutique firm. I have been task to recruit, interview and hire new talent. I am shocked to hear that non-attorneys are seeking hourly rates and annual salaries higher than post-bar law clerks and first year attorneys. Is this the new norm???

like

I recently started my own firm. We primarily do ID. I want to give our attorneys flexibility and a work life balance so I’m considering giving them a higher % of every hour billed/collected as the basis of their compensation rather than a set salary. This would eliminate any billing pressure and give attorneys the freedom to decide how much they want to work/earn. Anyone have any thoughts on whether this would be fair and/or a good idea?

like

When OC is rude/aggressive/uncivil in an email (and the behavior is unprovoked), what’s the best way to respond? I usually ignore it and respond normally, but I won’t allow older attorneys to think that, just because I’m a young lawyer, they’re going to walk all over me. I’m still a lawyer with the same degree and younger lawyers know A LOT of stuff that many experienced attorneys do not (technology, doc management systems, how to edit and mark docs without cutting down the Amazon etc.)

like

Salary for first year worker comp at a midsize PI firm? I’m currently in law school in Arizona and they are paying me $25 an hour and want to hire me on but I don’t know the salary.

like

I’m a current biglaw associate thinking of lateraling to Quinn Emanuel. Looking for a more dynamic and trial-focused litigation practice, but I’m a little put off by how poorly Quinn seems to invest in support (tech, paralegals, etc) and generally seems to nickel and dime its associates. Curious how these issues feel for Quinn associates on a day to day basis.

like

I feel bad because I think I left money on the table. I demanded something (as a plantiffs PI) and the OC actually thought it was reasonable. This why we come in so high sometimes. Ugh.

likefunny

Deadline to Answer was missed, judicial default was entered, then a Default Final Judgment was entered without a hearing. Would this be an additional grounds for a Motion to Set Aside/Vacate? Assistant forgot to the calendar deadline, and when judicial default was issued, assistant was assigned to file the Answer/Counterclaim, but did not. Soon after, she quit. Was first put on notice when DFJ was issued.

like

Any insight on Amundsen & Davis? Salary, billable requirement, culture? Specifically looking at the Chicago office.

like

It's that time...🦃

What's one thing you're super grateful for in your life or career at the moment?

Drop it below! 👇

like

How do you approach collecting documents from a client in response to discovery requests? Particularly with broad and vague document requests that leave you guessing about what the other side is looking for, even after you meet and confer. I’m realizing no one ever taught me a systematic approach to this problem. And that big, name-brand companies are absolutely terrible about record-keeping or even knowing what records they have.

like

Anyone taking the ride share (Uber, Lyft, etc.) misclassified as Independent Contractors mass arbitration cases? I have 150+ people to refer. I need to find a home for these folks. 😑 Thank you!

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Send download link to your phone

OR

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.

Messaging rates may apply

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal