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Chief
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Chief
If people want to elect billionaires who serve other billionaires, well, this is what you get. But hey, you get to “own” your neighbor with respect to political ideology.
I’m fascinated by the willingness of a lower to middle class people to defend the billionaires making more billions while cutting social benefits
Chief
Totally agree, I think western Europe does it generally better than the US and has for some time.
These posts are wild - no you don’t live with “just enough” to get by if you are a consultant.
I grew up actually poor. At 40, I have multiple properties, more material possessions than I could have ever imagined, and my wife who is able to stay home with our children.
Capitalism works well - you are not a victim and objectively live a better life than kings 500 years ago.
EY1, fair point about the 1%, it's more likely to be the 0.1% or even 0.01% who consist of capital owners considering the immiseration everywhere else in the world.
You are certainly correct about the capability for social mobility being at its best in Capitalist societies, but I completely disagree with the individualistic notion that its our own failures that stop us from becoming obscenely wealthy.
The assumption that I'm resentful towards the weslthy because of their wealth is a very lazy one. I literally said "only fools blame the rich simply because they are rich". The disdain comes from how those in power (mis)manage our society and are primarily focused on infinite capital accumulation over any other reasonable goal that won't send our planet into oblivion.
I'm not from the US and understand the benefits of Capitalism and how it has allowed for comfortable living for some, but it is at the expense of the many. I also think implying "well you aren't as poor as those other people so you can't complain" is also lazy and dismissive of real problems that the poor in the US face, not to mention other imperialist countries.
You work at Accenture. You aren’t getting “paid just enough to survive”.
The audacity of being an educated, cushy white collar office worker in one of the freest, most prosperous and technologically advanced democracies in human history and trying to compare yourself to a medieval serf. Just lol
You're making a lot of assumptions about OP here lmao.
Chief
That’s the ultimate goal of the robber baron class. About 120 years ago we realized we could make laws that protect regular people, but we’re not really doing that anymore.
Western Europe seems to have figured it out more than the US.
Agreed, if they had their way, Capitalists would do away with hard-won victories that we take for granted in post-imperial countries like 9-5 working hours or the ability to be represented in a union (both of these are actively attacked all the time). They'd bring us back to 1900.
I would say we have it lifestyle wise better than serfs but agree with the overall sentiment. The metric/facts I always use with people is that since the invention of the internet productivity of workers has 20x- that means the same amount of work is generating 20x more profit. Yet, wages have not gone up 20x, so where is all the money going? If Jeff Bezos doesn’t show up to work one day, everything runs fine at Amazon. If one guy in the warehouse doesn’t show up, money is immediately lost. I’m not saying the warehouse guy should get paid the same as the CEO, but when he can’t pay for health insurance or groceries and the government steps in, then our tax dollars are just subsidizing Jeff Bezos’ fortune
They are very different systems. Feudalism had an absolutist leader who had the Divine Right of Kings as their impregnable defence for any action they took, and 99% of the population sold their labour (or were enslaved) to the landed class in exchange for a measly existence. Capitalism introduces some democratic institutions and allows for some limited opportunities for social mobility, primarily via the acquisition of private property. You still have to sell your labour for a wage, but it's a lot less likely that you are literally enslaved to your capital owner. You still live in a situation where you sell your labour or you starve in much of the world. Some nations have achieved victories such as unemployment benefits, socialised healthcare and so on that make our lives easier, but ultimately the Capitalist class replaced the royals as the ruling group in society and own the means by which everything is produced as well as owning mainstream media.
Chief
Capitalism gives you an opportunity to thrive, while being a serf meant you were stuck with no real options.
I feel strange when people complain about capitalism in 2025.
SM2 I don't "complain" about it, I'd like for it to be supplemented with adequate social systems so the working class have some modicum of defence against homelessness and starvation at the very least. Most people in the world do not have these luxuries and live in terrible immiseration. It's just lazy and condescending to assume anyone who raises a question is complaining or yapping. Remember, we weren't just gifted the first world benefits of things like the 40 hour work week, weekends off and so on - these had to be fought for tooth and nail and are always under threat.
A super fun depressing fact I learned years ago is that peasants actually had more days off than we do currently. They had better separation of work and home and because there was no industrial 8-5/“work week”, their leisure time was actually theirs.
There was an article literally a week or so ago about the “infinite work day”. Better vs worse I think is the superficial thought experiment related to working as people. Critical thinking would be digging more into “what have we lost with capitalism?” or “what does ‘late stage’ actually look like for me/us?” or “how far will it go before this unnatural system collapses in on itself and then what?”
Which data? The population and high net worth? Google.
I don’t have the energy to argue with people who have such little understanding of history and economics. Socialism has never worked. And the Scandinavian model is starting to crack too, but I would say its flaws are of the same magnitude as those of capitalism. It just works better at smaller scale and with homogenous populations.
Read the chart above. Capitalism has clearly worked.
And before you blame the plight of South America and Africa on the west, remember there are at least a few African countries that were never colonized. They aren’t exactly crushing it.
Chief
No, the serf couldn't quit and move to a better feifdom, nor have the option to set out on their own if they were so inclined. And you don't have to pay your employer for the privilege of working for him, and your employer likely provides you benefits including contributing to a retirement plan. Although, if the Mongolian hoards decend on you, you're on your own. 😉
Hierarchy exists regardless of what we do, but no. It’s not feudalism. We all struggle to maintain weight vs die out of hunger. No one sends us to constant wars. We have lots of rights. We have lots of benefits including protection, safety, healthcare etc. What are you even talking about?
I’m rehashing some stuff that’s already been said above. In feudalism you’re born a serf you die a serf. I work for a firm where anyone can become an owner. We even have term limits for C-level roles. Half of our billionaires were born middle class or poor. Not everyone will make it , but truly anyone can.
Read the Magna Carta
I agree capitalism is the less imperfect system and taps into human individualistic & egotistic nature, I also think it is rapidly deteriorating and AI will accelerate it.
Maybe but we’re far from serfs, we might not be kings and queens but we’re at least in the royal court, like dukes or some shit
Mercantilism
Capitalism is a very broad term (social democrats are still capitalist) but it has the capacity to allow everyone to own property. Feudalism does not.
The average house and car ownership in 'Social Democracies' is lower than in the US. The only reason they can live cushy lives is because the US essentially bank roles their military expenditures.
Also read about Otto Von Bismarck and the real reason he wanted started social programs. Also read about the EU project and what the European elites (modern day aristocrats) thought of the European people and WWI and WWII.
We need communism. It is what people deserve.