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As a parent of multiple older kids I’ll also offer a counter-perspective: let it go. Keep modeling polite behavior, but cease mentioning it to your kid. Two reasons- first, the more rules and hoops we set up for our kids, the more we parents have to police them and spend energy doling out consequences. It adds up, and contributes to the litany of things that make parenthood exhausting. Second, your child will learn from the outside world that not saying these things is rude and that will be the greatest correcter you could hope for. One kid will point out she’s “not nice” for not saying thank you and all the sudden she’ll be saying thank you all over the place. Give social learning time to take its course. 😎 All in all I would file this under things I let go because they will one day resolve on their own. And insisting my kid say “good morning” and “thank you” for their milk every. damn. morning- I just don’t have the energy for that.
You do you- this is just my perspective. I get you are passionate from your reply.
My kids tend to say these phrases sometimes and forget others- I just choose not to make it one of my musts. I generally feel I already do quite a bit for for my kids and their success in the world. Some of it will be on them to figure out how to make their way.
Those rude teens you mention- they won’t get very far, will they? They’ll learn that consequence sooner or later. As for “undoing” cycles- my mom also had things she insisted on that I’m undoing with my kids. I’m sure mine will, too- and so will yours. None of us gets this perfect.
We’re pretty strict with these things and it helps that their grandma lives with us and is an enforcer. I have 3yo twins and a 17mo.
But we make please and thank you and sorry and greetings a requirement and it’s actually hilarious how polite our kids can be. They were at swim class a couple weeks ago and the teacher asked one to do something and he replied “no, thank you!” In a very polite tone. The teacher got a big kick out it.
But want milk and don’t say please and thank you? No milk. Nana or mom wakes up? I emphasize saying good morning and then tell the kids to say - so I set the example and have them mirror me. Today one pushed his brother. I put him in time out and told him if he said sorry to his brother he could come out. He got cheeky and said “sorry dad/sorry snowman/sorry pickle” but finally caved and said sorry and gave his brother a hug.
We make the 17mo say “ta” instead of please/thank you and he does it voluntarily when we give him milk/juice/a toy or when he is asking for it. He also does sign language for please, more, and all done - the twins still do the signs simultaneously when they say the actual words, it’s really cute.
True, typically they need to do the entire time out and we say “when the timer goes off you are going to say sorry”.
My pre-K kid is similar and one thing I’ve been trying to encourage smiling and/or waving when someone says hi or at a “good morning” moment. It’s a bit of a cop out but seems like and easier way for him to engage with the social nicety without forcing him to say the words, which can escalate.
Pro
I do this gut check with myself to decide what is correct or silly to harp on - will your child say please/thank you/good morning when they are an adult? Is there an adult you know who is incapable of saying it (unless deeply disabled)? Then it’s fine.
Kids have so very little that they can have control over and while we can teach or model politeness, it’s great to have a kid who has autonomy and to teach them every level of consent matters. Those are also the building blocks to a healthy adult that she will hopefully become.
Pro
I’m overly polite and apologetic, the curse of being a woman, from the Midwest, with abusive gaslighting parents lol. My son said thank you (‘Dee-too, oh a-wecome’), and please and bless you and gives me kisses of his own volition constantly throughout the day. I also fill his independence and control bucket intentionally and just model, model, model.
One thing is for sure - forcing your toddler to say good morning and have manners doesn’t make them polite either.
I have an alternative view: I think you should interrogate whether your child defying this for a sense of control, rather than the reluctance to be polite?
Here's why I'm asking: I read that kids have something called a power bucket, naturally a need to make decisions and have some sense of control. With my little guy (3) I do little things like asking if he wants to walk to the bath or if I should carry him, or let him choose to pour his own milk into the cup/bowl, or decide whether he or I gets the first turn brushing his teeth. Either way, the routine gets followed, but he gets the feeling of choice. Perhaps your kid is craving some control and you could give that to them in other areas, so this might be less of a battle.
I think as long as she conveys emotion and empathy the actual words don’t matter. My husband is weird about saying certain “golden words” and phrases, so I use alternatives with our kids. Instead of saying goodbye we say “see ya later alligator”. I don’t care if my kids say please, as long as they use their manners like “may I have some…”.
Instead of saying good morning, you could say “how did you sleep last night?”. And with her teachers she could say “how are you doing today” or “how is your morning going?”
My kids don’t listen to me if I tell them what to do like “get off the couch”. But they do listen if I say “are we supposed to be standing on the couch right now?”. I think you could apply the same logic here, as long as the sentiment is there who cares if she says good morning or asks “what are we doing today?”.
Same with my daughter. I've tried the strict way (not letting her leave without saying goodbye at daycare), I tried modeling it (still do), I've tried asking nicely and prepping her before I knew she would need to say it. Nothing has worked. Not really worried about it. I think the modeling behavior will be effective long term even if it isnt short term.
You may already be doing this, but one thing that’s important about modeling is to do it with everyone, not just your kid. My husband and I say “thank you” and “you’re welcome” to each other a lot, but we’re bad at saying “please” – as a result my son is great at saying thank you and you’re welcome, but not at saying please.
So keep modeling and your kid will eventually follow. Like M2 said above - I have yet to meet an adult that hasn’t learned these societal norms. M
"Please" and "thank you" are important.
"Good morning" - not so important.
People say it, but don't necessarily mean it. It doesn't require a reply. Unfortunately, "hey" is becoming acceptable as a greeting, although I cringed when my client (she's an author) sent an email that opened with "Hey". The VP used to walk the halls and greet us with "how's it going" and kept walking, not expecting an answer. I decided to test him one day, and responded with "Not so good". He said nothing and kept walking.
Sounds like you have a stubborn kid who wants to do things on his terms not yours. One of mine is that way and it’s certainly harder than it was with his sister. Also he is more shy and not as sociable as my daughter was. I think you have to keep personally and age in perspective and also pick your battles. Maybe keep reminding and over time as they get older they will adopt the rule. With my son I would always remind him on spot: what do you say? He would look down because he is shy. However I do hear from many that when I am not around he is very polite and respectful kid and very well liked (contrary to stubborn kid at home).
I have a friend of a friend whose kids I see few times a month (12 and 9 year old) and every time we are in same home they never acknowledge me and mother doesn’t ask them to do so. I find that rude and big mistake for a long run. If mom would remind them eventually they would do it themselves I am sure.
Your child has a long road ahead.
She will have challenges and change in ways you simply can’t predict.
There will be many things like this that come up every year.
As others have said, set the rules, model the behavior.
If it’s still a thing a year from now, you can change your approach.
Remember everything changes.
Would you say she’s shy in other situations, or defiant in other situations. Out of my 3 sons (when they were that young), our oldest was very reserved and shy; middle one was very , stubborn, defiant, strong willed; our youngest was always the icing on the cake.
Could she be anxious?
It’s not an option, I would punish her. I know that sounds extreme but we have to teach them to be polite. If my son did this I would probably take his phone or Xbox away for a few hours or a day
i prompted my daughter from age 3 till 6..3 years and still she misses thank you and basic greetings..i guess some kids are like that
As a general rule of parenting, the more you “make” your kid do something the less likely they will enjoy it. So maybe dial back the pressure and see what happens.