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Im not searching for a new job but an acquaintance reached out about a similar role at a similar energy company.Turns out 2 ppl threw my name in the hat. I looked into it and the position was posted 2 weeks ago.Their director wants to meet.I bet pay is one of the first things to be discussed so that no one’s time is wasted.Am I crazy for not wanting to entertain it for less than 20-25% base pay increase?Is it selfish to ask for more? I’m sure most salary conversations end in negotiation anyways?
In hand salary?
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Personally I don’t want to deal with the business side of all of it. I’ve worked for two small law firms and the attorneys who own the firms constantly complain about how much of their time is sucked into payroll, taxes, quickbooks, retainers, etc.
It's a complaint so that you dont leave. Yes it takes time to do all that stuff but the rewards are definitely worth it. I will anonymously admit that I complain about that stuff in front of my employees as well
I imagine it's fear for some and laziness for others.
Do it. I highly recommend it.
I truly appreciate your advice.
Though i appreciate it, i do not appreciate your incorrect assessment of what i am doing. The people i am agreeing with, and not asking further questions to are the ones who i no longer want to hear from. It is the managing partners who i am telling my situation to, and essentially asking for you to respond as to why my "fear" is unfounded.
I am in a similar situation as you were only 2 differences (maybe 1): i am bringing in the money and cannot live off my significant other's salary. So if things go bad, i am considering that. Second, which maynot have been different, is my large debt.
Again. Thank you for the invaluable advice i could not get elsewhere. Terrible assessment of what i was actually doing, but great advice and insight:)
I took over my dad’s busy pi firm. Would not start my own, takes too long to develop the client base and get enough referrals to sustain a decent size biz. Not to mention you need to wait at least two years before any money starts coming in. I guess if your goal is to just “make 100k” after expenses etc it isn’t too tough, but that isn’t a sustainable model. You will need at least 2 or 3 staff members and even though they aren’t making a ton of money you still need to come up with about 150k in payroll before you can even pay yourself. No workers and you are filling out NF forms, preparing AZ’s and answering phones all day. Plus rent (pi firms still need an office) in a decent area thats another 3k a month. My phone system cost 3k to install, high end copy machine, decent case management software is a few hundred per license per year, plus all the other BS of running a small business which it sound like you have no experience in. In short- you need to make at least 400k in fees (1.2 mil in gross settlements) to come close to what you make at your EASY job at an insurance company which never requires you to go out and actually bring in new business.
That being said, if your dad already owns one- it is a great job, you’re right.
Sounds like you got it all figured out. Good luck!
If you can get your own clients you should 100% start your own firm
I started w negative money... still going 7 years in. Now I have a office paid and bought for w 4 full time people. It’s possible but it’s really really challenging and difficult.
The biggest thing that keeps me out of doing it myself right now is the lack of capital. I'm in PI on the plaintiff's side and it costs a decent amount to prosecute them. If you can get the clients and front the expenses, no matter what kind of law you're practicing, I'd say go for it.
What I did when I started is I gave up some of the fees. I called older PI attorneys and talked to them about fee splits. If they pay all the costs, I'll do all the work and we can go 50/50. Did I give away too much? Probably but who cares. It's not about maximizing every deal, it's about learning value and speedig up the velocity of your cases.
Having a bank helps you move the case forward faster, it helps resolve the case for the right value faster. Then you save the money you made and after 5,6,7 of those you dont need anyone anymore.
Being greedy is a death knell for many PI firms. They want it all right away
Where I practice it's hard to get adjusters to refer a matter to any attorney that doesn't have significant first chair experience. The partner I do most of my work with has been taking me second chair and advocating for me to first chair matters (unfortunately they're settling). My impression from friends is the plaintiff side sees more help between attorneys - referring smaller cases to younger attorneys etc. (Could be different in every area) if when the partner I work with retires I am not in line to have cases referred to me directly, then I might restart on the plaintiffs side with plans of opening my own. (4 years ins defense right now - expect partner to retire in 2-3 years)
Which is honestly why i do not want to be on defense side anymore. I can convince joe shmoe i can settle his case for 1-10kx10000 but i cant convince an old time claims handler to trust me with their money. I understand why, but it kills my motivation to still be in the game. And screw billables/authority requests/long winded reports they never read. Over all of it.
Am all for starting your own practice. BUT, and it’s a big BUT, you need to be fully committed and appreciate all of the uncertainty. Many lawyers go for pltf’s PI work, but you need a strong marketing plan. Have seen several successful plans. One colleague bought a bar he used as a referral source for DUI and injury claims. He also worked hard to develop a reputation as a competent, and sometimes stellar, trial attorney. My route was different insofar as I stayed at a defense firm for 14 years before starting my own. On the defense side — for me at least — demonstrable trial skills (and I got a lot of opportunities at my former firm which I continued when I left) mattered a LOT. Harder to do — I think — when you are on your own. Less trust because the only brand you might have is your own. Also, on the defense side, many clients abandon a trial loser, which means you have a lot of pressure when you do have to/want to take a case to trial. Have had judges and opposing counsel taunt me with threats of “losing the client” if I lost the case. It’s not impossible. It’s been done. But there are a lot of ways for it to go wrong. Have a good plan. Be patient. Prepare yourself (and your SO). Make the move toward what you want and not only away from what you think you hate. (Anger and frustration alone do not necessarily augur for success.). When you do make the jump, think you have to think like Cortez. You cannot go back; the boat is burned.
Have never regretted it.
Thank you tons for this reply. That is exactly my reluctance: i want more experience but i also know the longer the stay there's tons of potential money i am not making. I joined defense for experience only: if i could defend big corps and insurance corps, i should be able to get a plaintiff client money too. And yes, that is the big wall for the jump as well: burning bridges.
Thanks again.
For those who have gone out and started their own firms but didn’t have trial experience before doing so, would you recommend co-counseling some of your cases with other firms and use that as a way to gain experience?
Yes for sure. Also makes practicing the law not as lonely. Yes in the short term you don’t make as much money but better for the long term. Also your clients will be happier too generally
Starting is easy... maintaining and building is the real challenge.
Don’t do it. I tried to go solo more than once. Was a failure each time.
I’ve SEEN people who were in’s defense become successful plaintiffs lawyers. But they explained that they were careful. They built up a war chest. They did a depo every day for two years.
Your approach is wise for asking advice. But you’re not looking at what it takes but what to do when you succeed. That’s not bad. That’s just the first step. Hold off until you’ve got a war chest, 100 depos under your belt, and a working knowledge of what every case that touches your desk is worth.
If you can survive the first 6-12 months, you better off as a plaintiffs lawyer on your own. I literally brought home $110,000 in the first 90 days of 2020. It took less than 5 cases to do it.
What kind of networking group we talking? With lawyers or potential client sources.
Fear
Mental weakness
It you have any sort of business background it’s a no brainer
Hey Mr. Donothing, have you started your own biz yet?
Yeah i shold not stoop to his level. Nothing screams "daddy's boy" more than someone who took over his daddy's company and has time to circle back to a dead thread to insult someone interested in starting a company from the bottom, not given by my daddy.
This guy likely got life insurance from dead daddy, or a trust. If neither, he took over aka received a free well-oiled company off the sweat of his hard-working father. Now that he no longer runs it, dough-boy here is probably running it to the ground considering he's the ONLY plaintiff solo to tell me i have to dish our 400k to make 100k. I used to be in manufacturing b4 law school and i understand margins are typically small, but it sounds you YOU are the one whose never ran a company.
Clown lawyers everywhere. Wouldn't be surprised if he has attorneys working for him and he calls himself the managing partner while literally doing nothing. Thank your dad you not-so-humble chump.
Take the leap! Best business decision I ever made.