Related Posts
Rough out here.
Ok, what does ‘F’ mean
Rising Star
Additional Posts in Copywriters
New to Fishbowl?
Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
Sign Up to see all discussions
- Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
- Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
- Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
"" is an unusual email domain. If correct, please proceed to the next step
Messaging rates may apply
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
New to Fishbowl?
Download the Fishbowl app to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Share
Embed this post
Copy and paste embed code on your site
Preview
Download the
Fishbowl app
Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile
Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl
Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl
Messaging rates may apply
Writer here. Those kinds of agencies are always account-driven, don’t fully grasp the medium, and usually only hire CDs who are graphic designers.
This isn’t a gender thing, OP. I’m in NYC and every CD I’ve ever had no matter their gender or role background (AD or Copy) has always valued both since solid creative relies on the combination.
Every one that is, accept of course for the incompetent, account-driven Digitas.
It’s a consequence of having art/design CDs oversee copy vs gender stereotyping.
This is what I’m gleaning from your description of the scenario. I can see how you’re tired of being “word PERSON” and that’s a fair assessment. It’s however, dangerous to make this about anything else other than the wrong weight of talents and casting.
Sounds like some good old fashioned misogyny to me. As a man and copywriter I’ve never experienced this.
It’s not one person’s experience 😂 it’s every woman in advertising. Ask them! They’ll all have stories to tell you. And if they don’t, you might be part of the problem 😬
They they call the art “the creative” and the copy the copy. 🫤
They need to be reminded that Copywriters were the original Creatives.
What happened to the development of an idea first, and then visual and copy jointly developed to bring the idea to life?
Am I dinosaur? Well, yes, I am. But still…
Are all your CDs art directors?
Thissss
I mean I’m a writer and I kind of agree tbh. Visuals and design strike first, and only if those are compelling enough to hold attention will people read or listen to the words. And that’s totally okay. That’s why it’s takes two brains to make something great.
Depends on your agency but also the kind of project - sometimes copy is the side salad (most often in design heavy agencies or projects) but there are plenty of places and projects where copy is just as important (or more)
Yeah, my CD (f), also treats it this way. She’s a designer.
Been a trend in the industry for a while, mainly since digital shops came along. AD's and Designers were pushed to the fore and Copy became the loathsome 'content'. Look for a better agency.
lol wut. I’m a writer and I absolutely don’t operate like that.
Seems like you've already decided why.
I think you should speak up. Don't just give good copy ideas, do a little extra work to show 'why' they're great ideas.
CS1 is being realistic, unfortunate. Misogyny is everywhere but definitely in advertising. For women to get ahead, they have to work so much harder. Men are handed opportunities as default whereas successful powerful women have to work practically twice as hard to get there.
But here’s some advice I hope can help balance your workload cause it’s so unfair women have the lion’s share of work on so many levels at home and at work…
Do the copy last.
In round 1, take the time you’d typically spend writing and spend it on concepting/big idea thinking. Then, ask the AD to “use their magic” and “make jt pretty” for you. If you do copy for them, they can do art for you.
Copy can be used to sell in the idea (especially a catchy title/headline) but the rest should only come later once you’ve aligned or the larger vision/concept.
Good luck!!
Yeah it’s been like this, copy is adjacent, it’s frustrating but I deal with it
I think it depends on the place where copy and writing are valued. Are you a conceptual writer? Do you just write white papers? Do you merely focus on headlines? Are you a creative participant or are you asked last minute to come into a meeting to make the words better? Do you help come up with ideas? Is it your main idea that succeeds as the creative? Would love to answer to those questions and that would give More context.
Is the agency made up for men or is the leadership? All men is the creative directors consist of an art director and copywriter? Or is it just an overarching creative director? Are there other female creative directors within your company? Can you work for them instead?
I’m sorry that you had those poor experiences from male creative directors. I will not dispute that experience or your truth on that but how many creative doctors have you had? are they all from the same agency or different agencies? What I’m getting at is that are these the agencies that value writing in general?
Based on OP’s title, I’m going to guess that this is client-side. Which makes sense. Internal creative departments tend to over emphasize design because they’re also often also handling a slew of design focused tasks like branding, product design, etc. Design and some digital shops notwithstanding, agencies generally aren’t like this.
A picture ain’t a prompt, so they’ll understand being marginalized soon enough
They are dolts.
Find a new team. Copy leadership is critical
Of all my design-first CDs (4), only one had a copy opinion worth anything. Two out of three non-helpful were female.
I had one copy-first CD and she blended to art direction wonderfully.
This aligns with my overall experience working with writers and designers. Writers tend to be much more helpful in art direction than designers in copy direction. (Reading the copy is a good start, though.)