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Conversation Starter
Conversation Starter
Hi Fishes,
I recently got an offer for Cyber security advisory at PwC India . They gave a 20% hike on the current amount. Thing is that l, the technical interview told me that it is not a software/coding type of position and asked me multiple times if I was interested to do that. Is that a red flag?
Additional Posts in Big Law
Coach
I am a person, not a machine. That is all.
Subject Expert
Who knew biglaw partners were all such big Ye fans?
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Subject Expert
You can probably get by with 180 hours indefinitely without repercussions. Why you would want to do that having just joined is beyond me.
Latham is not a “good v10” sorry bud *shrug*
Subject Expert
It is January so you’re officially first years, no more stub lol.
If your firm doesn’t have a billable requirement I’d be shooting for 2000. I’m sure others are billing more but you don’t have to be them. But 2k is a pretty standard minimum requirement in big law (also places at 1900-1950) so if you’re at 2000 that’s respectable enough. 2000/12 = ~167 a month. 2000/50 (assuming 2 weeks lost to holidays and vacations) = ~40 billables a week. Not that you need to freak out if you’re not at those numbers, everyone understands hours are uneven and ramp up can be slow as a first year.
Subject Expert
180 hours is not really coasting....coasting is like 140 hours.
Mentor
I know a guy who billed 1200 hours for 3 years before he got pushed out as a 6 or 7th year.
Mentor
Same.
I coasted by with 20-50 hours/month for 9 months before any talk.
Subject Expert
A2, your experience is consistent with what I’ve heard and seen during my 7 years in the industry. Everyone thinks that low hours like yours will lead to something awful but it hardly ever does. We should all be more like you but we are too chicken shit. Good for you. Seriously.
I’m a second year and bill about 140 a month and haven’t received a talking to yet.
I don't think it's a question of how much you're billing. More a question of whether it's significantly less than everyone else and you're turning down work assignments.
My old firm used to tell us we should assume capacity was 50 hours per week for forecasting purposes. If you're regularly hitting under that, everyone else is over it, and you're turning down work, I would expect there to be trouble.
A lot of billing hours depends on what kind of matters you're staffed on though. If you're billing 15 hours a day to doc review that's a lot easier to get hours than when you're scrounging for .1 and .2 assignments here and there and waiting for more work and constantly task switching.
Also a V10 stub here, been barely billing 15-30 hours last like 5-6 weeks (with fluff CLE hours), and I never turn down work and don’t have any assignments I’m behind on, definitely freaking out a bit at this point… like rationally I know it’s fine, but still hella nerve wrecking
Are you still remote? I am a fully remote associate who lateraled during the pandemic and the first 2 months were very sparse in terms of work. Attorneys are generally shitty managers so they are struggling to adapt to remote hires. If you have a dedicated partner or a staffing partner try to just stay on top of them and let them know you have capacity. My Partner and I now have a weekly check in call which helps a lot with face time and making sure my plate is full.
If you're doing all that + getting good feedback and still slow just make sure you have plenty of documentation that it's not your fault and enjoy your free time! Think of it this way: if someone told me they'd pay me 300k+ for the next 4 years to bill 20 hrs/week, I'd happily take that over a shot at partner at the end of year 4 (but on this bowl I may be in the minority).
Mentor
I'd like to add that your coasting does show up--now or at the firm you're forced to lateral to--when it's clear your skills are below par.
Coach
Exactly this - I am largely ignored when I point this out though.
How do you remain at that level in Big Law? Im assuming someone is tracking what associates are working on? I’m at a smaller firm (approx 50 attorneys) but interested because I bill about 170-180 per month and make 210k but have been presented opportunities to join bigger firms (notably Goodwin remotely). I’m considered approximately a 4th year (I have a unique background and firm does not pay by class year). If I could bill the same and get paid market, that would be something I would explore.
I also feel like how you spend those hours is also a key difference. Are they 180-200 on your own time and pace versus a firm demanding short turnarounds requiring you to work unpredictably on nights and weekends? If in litigation, 180-200 hours on doc review will feel totally different than a month where you filed several briefs, conducted a lot of research, etc.
Mentor
If you’re trying to coast for a long time, you might consider lateraling to a “lower ranked” firm where you can get away with that for even longer.
Thank you all! It’s helpful to hear about different experiences.
I am not trying to slack/be a burden on the firm/team, but also have no hope of making partner (I’m a Women of Color, 1st generation student/American at a firm where I have yet to meet a single partner of color or even any senior associates of color - and absolutely nobody of my color or religion). I’m not mad about it- I just understand what my chancer at this firm are realistically and want to optimize my time/life.
Thanks again for all your perspectives! This app has really help me understand and learn so much about the corporate and legal world!
Coach
I am a woman though not otherwise diverse but work outside the US and my native language is not English. Law firms have such an issue with talent that diversity considerations are a bonus rather than a hindrance. Most people who work hard and for whom the firm and clients are the majority of their life appreciate dedication enormously.
Now, that said, the subtle issue of affinity is still existing and I think law needs to get much better at finding the less obvious affinities shared with a larger group of people.
Independent of whether you want to make partner, I would recommend what I recommend to everyone: Try to find people with whom you have something in common - it can be something big or small, one thing or several. The partner I work for and who has been my mentor for years is a married white man over 50 but we share a common love for history and interest in politics and an alma mater. One of my juniors who is POC shares my love for cinema and we can be snarky about clients together without the other one taking offence and so on.
Oh my, how young and silly we were… who else is swimming in endless deals?