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Hmm... Swagat nai karogey hamara :D
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I’m sorry but this is stupid/self-centered. If you want to whine about the need for sabbaticals then do that but dont make this about how firms very much necessarily need to accomodate families. We are talking about keeping another human being alive versus someone who just wants a paid vacation.. Not a parent fwiw.
Ah yes, this is the same associate that will make partner because, what else is there to do but have work consume your life and then make every associate under her absolutely miserable (esp those younger female associates with children). This has absolutely been my experience since there is no off button for said senior associate/partner. Hence, I left such firms. This post is proof of the resentment that said partners have for young associates with families. This rhetoric needs to change. You have no idea what goes into raising a child today. Its not a fricken sabbatical. Its work same as arriving at the job. There is no “time off”. Crazy this is coming from a woman.
Enthusiast
I don’t have children (would like to and I may adopt) and I generally agree. I don’t feel jealousy because almost anyone can become a parent if they choose to (even if not biologically). I think I only feel jealous of things categorically unavailable to me.
That said, the prevailing culture is set up to privilege people who choose to marry and have children. It’s not just law firms. I don’t know that there is any way to change that other than through long term cultural shifts. There are many ways childless folks can contribute to the world, many that are labor intensive (e.g. animal rescue, volunteering with refugees, caring for older relatives) but don’t qualify for automatic paid leave. That is unfair. It would be good to have “major life event” leave that mirrors parental leave. I don’t think of sabbaticals in the same way. To be equivalent to parental leave, it has to be more than just vacation/R&R time.
Subject Expert
I feel this so hard. I work extra on nights and weekends to help my community focusing on mutual aid. It’s not pro bono. It’s volunteer / community work that I’ll never get credit for or time off to dedicate myself to unless I use vacation (and it wouldn’t be vacation because it would still be work). Great point.
Subject Expert
I hate to say this but you literally have no idea why this time is needed until you have a kid. The policy was made by parents for parents and until you have a kid it will be hard to relate to why this time is crucial.
All I hear is a lack of compassion and competition for who has it worse. This shouldn’t be an either or. We should all be kinder with less judgement to everyone.
All of the parents on here must be extremely exhausted with caring for their kids because they aren’t reading what OP initially said.
Mentor
Agreed
I’m sorry, but posts like these make young attorneys like me terrified of having more children. I’d love to have 3 kids, but it’s precisely because people equate maternity leave to r&r that women with families end up leaving BigLaw. OP may not mean it, but this view that maternity leave is “time off” is terrifying to young female professionals who want to have a family but are afraid to be seen as disinterested. We’ve come a long way but by comparing apples to oranges (more specifically, maternity leave to a sabbatical) OP is (hopefully inadvertently) poking the cause of severe anxiety in a profession that is already known for discouraging women to focus on their families. OP can advocate for sabbatical, it’s reasonable, but please don’t compare it to maternity leave, at the risk of attacking something that is still extremely fragile and difficult in the US and in our profession.
Mentor
This. You perfectly articulated the sentiments of several other posters.
Tell me you have no idea what parenting is like without saying you have no idea what parenting is like.
A13 based on your argument, I can see why it took so long for US employers to start embracing paternity leave.
I think a better way of interpreting OP’s post is to replace “baby” with “passion project.” Parents get parental leave to focus on their passion project (ie, their choice to have a child; a life endeavor they are passionate about). It would be great if there was a similar type of leave available for other types of personal passion projects (eg, starting a non-profit, volunteer full-time for a month, taking a month long religious mission trip abroad, the list goes on).
Enthusiast
As someone who has a baby, I agree and I feel like childless people should be entitled to a sabbatical to pursue their own interests.
What makes you think the first three months after a baby that you can “focus and enjoy”? I had crippling postpartum anxiety and could barely feed myself or the baby. Nothing enjoyable about it.
Same here. I’m on mat leave following an emergency c-section and I do not have the hours in the day to keep baby fed, keep myself hydrated and fed (let alone bathed), and properly recover from surgery. Nothing about this leave is “focus and enjoy” and nothing about this leave is protecting me from burning out of my profession.
Employees need to stop airing their grievances by attacking the benefits other employees in different situations receive. The annoyance should be directed at the decision makers that foster an environment where burnout is prevalent, and no benefits are provided to employees to directly manage/reduce said burnout. No reason whatsoever to try and equivocate parental leave with a sabbatical. Us lower level employees are in this together.
Is jealousy a bad thing? I never said I was so jealous that parental leave shouldn't exist - I can understand how that would be bad. I addressed my admitted jealousy by saying theoughout my responses on here that more types of leave having the same facets as parental leave (hours, expectation of having a job upon return) should also exist beyond leave you have to have a kid for. I'm sorry you don't think my main post was worded eloquently enough, but I don't think I was negative about parental leave in this thread, but negative about the lack of any other leave not involving children.
I’m with OP. Parental leave is not a vacation, but I do get jealous when I see new moms leaving for 4-6 months to pursue a part of their life that they obviously really wanted. Everyone says parenting is hard work, but why do it unless it is actually personally fulfilling? I want some time doing some work that is not lawyering that is also personally fulfilling.
That is all.
Enthusiast
Great way to put it & FWIW I’m a mom who has taken full maternity leave. I hear you.
I 100% felt this way until I actually had a child and holy hell is it different. I spent that entire mat leave terrified I would somehow kill the baby because I was so new to parenting, it was more stressful than anything and I kept freaking out about how I would ever be able to do my job again well. Thankfully childcare exists and works. My life has never been harder yet more joyful and I completely understand your sentiments but just know that us working moms are in a constant state of frantic chaos!
I feel the same way. I really wish firms had a sabbatical program that associates who have not taken a leave in X number of years could utilize every few years. I also get that these leaves are due to life events (and think they are super important). I just think it would be a nice equalizer (in more ways than one) of sabbaticals were available and encouraged
This would be nice but let’s not get it twisted. Parental leave is far from a sabbatical unless you’re planned sabbatical includes sleepless nights, taking care of another human being 24/7 and recovering from traumatic surgery and body changes, all at the same time.
Speaking from the perspective of someone with children who has associates who might or might not have them, I have to do the same amount of work to cover for someone llama trekking in Patagonia as I do for someone having a kid. Why wouldn’t I let someone go llama trekking?
Before you start sending resumes, I’m not in charge of anything at my firm and these programs are all put in place because of legal requirements or competitive pressure in the job market. There is no firm that wants to go first with llama trekking leave, but as soon as someone does and high quality lawyers start moving there because of it then all firms will follow.
Enthusiast
Haven’t y’all learned by now that you can’t say the word parent on here without being attacked
If I had you watch my kid for a singular weekend then I’m pretty sure you’d delete this post lol
So if you could go back would you choose to not have your kid? You chose to have a kid and I assume the sacrifices you made are worth it because having a child is personally fulfilling to you? We should let people who choose to not have children also pursue something outside of work that is personally fulfilling to them.
And I say this as someone who wants to have a child and pray to god I do so while still in biglaw to take advantage of the amazing parental leave policy.
My male friends who have taken paternity leave had a very different experience. 10-12 weeks to play with their new child.
Enthusiast
😂😂😂😂
I think instead of being angry at new parents who are taking parental leave, you need to examine your own life and reflect what it is about the current state of affairs that would evoke such a response. Happy people don’t have these thoughts.
Omg - PLEASE tell me I'm not the only one who immediately flashed back to that scene in Legally Blonde ..."Excercise makes endorphins, and endorphins make you happy! And happy people dont just murder their husbands." A+ for the toxic positivity. 😂
Coach
Lol at this. The tide may be very slowly turning, but for most moms in big law, the mat leave was the beginning of the end of their career at their firm, mostly not by choice. Those who stay know how it is. Laughable to think that 3-6 months off does anything to compensate for the next 10-15 years of juggle if you do try to stay.
At my last firm, a very well know big law firm with fantastic associates, no associate that took a maternity leave had made partner since the 90s when I left a handful of years ago.
You, meanwhile, could simply request a sabbatical, and if that doesn’t work, just quit and get a new job and ask for the 3 month break in between, without your competence and commitment being constantly questioned.
Edited to say: fine and fair to feel burnt out and need a break. But don’t come at working moms in a big law bowl. Jesus.
As someone who does not have children but plans to, I understand the importance of this policy. I had my nephew for three days while WFH and I almost cried. Caring for another human being is a full time rewarding experience.
Also, from a logical standpoint this makes no sense. If there are policies for bereavement and disabilities, are you going to be upset because they don't apply to you. If you want freedom, become your own boss.
Also, bereavement leave is 5 days…
I think the push back from parents OP is because until you have lived it, it’s hard to understand. It’s not your fault - you just haven’t walked in those shoes. I have never had such a difficult period in my life as those 16 weeks. There was nothing I enjoyed about maternity leave: a time of extreme sleep deprivation, spousal conflict with our world turned upside down, recovering from major surgery, being frustrated and half out of my mind with a colicy baby. My point is that childbirth is not a life event that allows “3 months away from work to focus on and enjoy.” That said, you absolutely should be able to take extended leave for reasons other than having children.
Well put 👍
Adopt a teenage kid and have them live with your parents.