I am an incoming third year associate in an AmLaw 20 firm at New York. Although I do enjoy the work, I’m constantly questioning myself and my abilities. The work hours are quite bad too. Just out of the blue I interviewed for an AmLaw 70 firm in New York and they extended me an offer. Any advice on the pros and cons would be really appreciated!

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at

Idk how bad your hours are, but going down in ranking in the AmLaw100 (or 200) won’t necessarily translate to a better quality of life or lower hours/work standards. It could get worse, actually. Lower AmLaw firms are under more pressure, in certain respects, than the elite ones. Also, there are plenty of really hard working and competent attorneys in the lower rungs of the AmLaw who, for various reasons (e.g., went to local school instead of T14), couldn’t land an AmLaw20 job.

For reference, I’m at an AmLaw200 firm. When I talk to my friends at AmLaw50 or better firms, the differences in our hours/work standards run the gamut from de minimus (which is naturally frustrating since they make more than me) to extreme (which is a relief bc I’m not capable of billing 200-250 hrs every month).

The bottom line is that you should do your due diligence to ensure you’re not trading down but gaining nothing in return. Best of luck! Finally, once you hit year 6-7, you really come into your own as an attorney, so don’t let your current perspective dim your potential.

like

OP, I agree with A3 re amlaw but there are big differences between Cravath, Latham, STB, Shearman, Kirkland, etc. on the one hand and Faegre, Dorsey, Ballard Spahr, on the other. And between Faegre eg al and McLaw firms like Bake & McKenzie, DLA Piper and Holland & Knight. There are also big differences between practicing in NY vs DC vs Chicago vs SF vs anywhere else. Make a list of that matters most to you - WL balance, partnership potential, geography, prestige, money, practice type, diversity, opportunities for people in your demographic, etc. Rank them honestly. Then sleep on it and rank them again. Then do your research. Contrary to popular belief it’s really not that hard to get a sense of the reality of practice at the firms you’re considering. Work your alumni and friend network, pump headhunters for info, and do your research online. If you put in the time you can find a place that fits your priorities. Then figure out how to get hired there. Again, if they are a good fit for you, you probably are a good fit for them.

like

Very well said. Also examine issues like years to partnership. Partner salary range. Huge differences for the different firms. Due a diligence review. Firms change.

Am20 v am70 means nothing. Caravath is am53 and WLRK is am 47. Plenty of amlaw 40,30,20, and even 10 that are less prestigious and less profitable per partner. There are also am200 firms that have better PPP than am50 firms. The amlaw ranking is a silly metric to follow when picking your job imo.

like

The grass always looks greener but you still have to mow the grass. Law firms are a business so escaping billable hours and client development expectations. Focus on whether you like the people with whom you work and the work you do. Working longer hours is tolerable if you enjoy those

like

Congrats on the offer! I’d make sure to do homework on the new firm, talk to current or prior associates, even ask this bowl what the culture is like there. I say this because I would be surprised if the hours were much better at a V70 as opposed to a V20, and any lack of guidance that you’re currently feeling (reading into your questioning of yourself) may not be worlds apart at the new shop. Since these things are important to you, make sure they fit nicely!

like

Agree! I don’t mind the hours from time to time but would appreciate some predictability. Plus I’m looking for mentorship and a team that is actually investing in me and my professional development. I’m not getting that in my current job. I was just asking because current expectations are to Bill 2000+ hours and I don’t want to land in a place where the expectation is 2300 hours

like

Related Posts

I am an Automation tester with 9 years exp. What all should I focus for FAANG interview prep? Will the interview be different from that for Dev folks?

How is the wlb in EY LLP. I am going to join in PAS - Consultant in Mumbai.

like

Hello

I've been interviewed by @Amazon on 8th July and even after multiple follow up emails, there's no update. Any suggestions?

like
like

Hi guys. Has anyone attended the @Autodesk frontend interview? How was your experience?

Any interview prep advice for the SAP Senior Consultant position at EY ? First step is Hireviu questions with some written portion. What to expect for the Hireviu questions and the written part?

like

Hi fishes! I gave first round interview for L&T on saturday but have not received any further communication. Should I think of it that I got rejected?

like

Had my first round of interview with Google. It’s almost a week but I haven’t gotten any feedback. Is that the normal practice?

like

Anyone working in synechron for DKP group? How is the WLB and job security there?

Can someone tell how is the work life balance in JP Morgan client in Synechron.

And is it good choice to accept Synechron by rejecteing deloitte offer

like

Can anybody provide any insights about citibank project in @Synechron. How is the work life balance here?

like

What is the culture at LEK London office, LS team? Seeing very contradictory views in bowls about WLB, culture, so very curious to understand what are the real status quo. Also, how does the experience vary by level e.g. AC vs C? Thanks!

like

What according to your experience during interviews has been one thing that you said or did made you get the job over 1000s of other applicants for a job, according to you? What is that one thing that made a difference and set you apart?

Just asking to learn from experiences.

like

Any tips or advice for the Amazon Senior Program Manager Interview? This is the hiring manager zoom interview. I am excited and preparing as much as I can.

like

So I recently interviewed for an associate PM role with my current company. I’ve been a store manager with them for 11 years. During the interviews, I felt like things were growing great and the feedback I got at the end was great. You’d think given my time knowing the product/ company for so long, that I’d be a great fit but I got rejected and haven’t gotten feedback probably will get ghosted. Should I shoot my shot and advocate for myself with the hiring manager either way?

like

If I’m applying to top 15 programs as a sponsored student, what GMAT score is a minimum for “good enough” to get in? 650?

funny

Anyone applying to Tuck? Did you get a personalized email from the admissions director a week or two after the deadline? Trying not to get too hyped about nothing...

Anyone have any insight into Success Manager roles at Salesforce? Trying to get a sense of comp, wlb, etc. Specifically looking at a position in the national security sector. TIA!

like

I am trying to make the transition from a large nonprofit public media organization to a small agency. I’m currently interviewing and it’s looking real promising. However, it’s a whole new world for me! Any tips or suggestions???

like

How bad is it to sound shaky during the case interview? I got everything right and nailed the math but I feel like I sounded like I was about to cry even though I was confident 🤦🏻‍♀️

like

More Posts

Can someone share any openings for JPMC Bangalore related to freshers.
Tech stack is SQL and Tableau. I am a fresher with 10 months of experience in internships and 1 month of full time experience.

Thank you for your help!

My employer is going on a hiring blitz and is offering new hires of the same position a higher salary than I currently have, is this normal or should I demand a raise?

likesmart

Heads up: Hilton is giving triple points during July if you use their credit card for booking. Good opportunity to make up to 54 points per $1. Time to stack up those points! Happy monday! :D

like

Anyone found an affordable adjustable standing desk they like? I have an iMac and a laptop is like to be able to fit on it.

like

I am in a rut...I'm thinking about ending 2022 and starting 2023 on a high note. I have been thinking about taking a last-minute trip. Where would be a great place to celebrate the new year?

like

Hey Fishes.
EY GDS is looking for candidates with 5+ experience in OT/CS (SCADA/ADMS/OMS/DERMS/AMI
If any one interested I can refer
Please ping me separately @

like

Hi, I was promoted to Associate in March. Am I eligible for October annual hike?

like

What is the salary range for a senior associate in pwc india (Advisory)?

like

Hi All, Which company is better in terms of all the aspects like wlb, culture, benefits and so on..

1) Rakuten - 25 LPA
2) Applied Materials - 27 LPA

YoE - 5 years, Java

like

Does anyone else feel like they have become too utilitarian and objective?

like

Haven’t seen bf in over 3 months due to COVID. Lately, he’s been pushing to see me but I don’t feel comfortable because he hasn’t been quarantining. He makes it sound like if I’m not willing to go see him might as well breakup. Any advice?

like

Looking to move to San Antonio and we're looking at places in Alta Vista and El Dorado. Pros and cons? We have two kids under five, so looking for a nice family community with good schools.

like

Does anyone know of a resource to understand and compare the different career agent contracts with the large mutual insurers?

like

How often do H1-b transfers get rejected? Have an attractive offer from a big firm with a strong history of H1-b applications, but not sure if its worth the risk. Any inputs will be appreciated.

like

Are there any VC firms in Toronto/Canada with comparable pay to Consulting?

likefunny

Can someone please explain connections strategy? At my (creative ad) agency we only have strategy and digital/ social strategy. Trying to grasp what exactly a connections or comms strategist works on.

like

Hi All,

What is the advantage and disadvantage of working in SAP labs as external worker

like

Just started studying for audit and there’s a small section about intro to excel/data prep in excel and was wondering if this was part of the new material change? Just wanna know if I can skip this section. Thanks!

like

guys im looking for MidMarket M&A associate referrals. I graduate from my MBA in April 23’. Please DM /Connect would be happy to share details or arrange coffee chats .

like

Trying to come up with some project work for my University Sourcers to complete that will benefit my team. Their most recent ask was to generate a list of universities in each state that we source from within iCIMS. What other projects have you found to be beneficial to enhance recruiting efforts?

like

Additional Posts in Law

Any insight on working as a staff attorney at Sidley as far as pay, growth, hours, etc.? I had someone reach out to me about a staff attorney role there and just want to hear opinions.

like

What’s the answer comrades?

Post Photo
likehelpful

Has anyone here worked (or does anyone currently work) for Bernstein Litowitz (aka BLBG)? Very interested to learn what inside associates feel about the firm, its culture, work-life balance, billable hours, etc.

like

Got a case where client got in a car accident and called the police the other driver gave completely fake information and the police didn't check it. What's our recourse to track them down?

like

I joined fishbowl a month ago and while I’ve seen a couple contentious debates but I must say I’m pleasantly surprised at how respectfully ppl comment on this app even when disagreeing. Usually anonymity on the internet brings out the absolute worst in ppl; they type things anonymously that they would NEVER say in person smh. But I really haven’t seen horrible comments here. I wonder what makes this app diff frm others?

like

Linguistic question, should an associate say "my partner" when talking to a client about a partner? To me this comes off like implying your also a partner, but saying "our partner" sounds weird too...

like

Any entertaining stories about opposing counsel just losing their mind on you in court or over the phone? How do you respond to opposing counsel who is being rude, unreasonable, or verbally abusive?

like

Does anyone have a drink or two while working late some nights? I’ve gotten into the habit of having a glass of scotch on a Thursday or Friday night while working. Not saying it’s a bad thing, just curious if others do it.

like

Idk, maybe it’s time we bring these engineers and techs down. If my 🧠 links to a 💻 , all of my non-billable work will come to light. 😤

Post Photo
like

I’m getting ready for my first telephonic Case Management Conference as a first year associate. I’ve never been “in front” of a judge before. I received some training and I look forward to the experience, but I’m a little nervous about having to speak in front of the judge. I know the case, but I’m afraid I’ll freeze and make a fool of myself. Any advice re: court calls, courtroom etiquette, or stories about your first times in front of judges?

like

It is in appropriate to ask what the compensation for a position is after a first interview if they want you to go on three more and the interviewers on my first told me that was above their pay grade to tell me?????

Seems kind of ridiculous for a business to want to waste so much time to find out after a handful of interviews that the pay isnt aligned with my needs ......

I can see in biglaw not bringing up knowing damn well if you get an offer itll likely be high, but this is a midsize

likesmart

When applying for a job, what is the strategy when a firm asks you for your compensation requirements? I don’t want to be unrealistic, but I don’t want to sell myself short either.

like

What do you do when you feel the goalpost has been/is being moved re: billable requirements? Like there's a spoken vs unspoken? I chose this job based on billables vs salary and what I'm being told I'm expected to do now is 20-30% (at least) > than what was initially agreed upon. Given my other life responsibilities, this is creating a huge strain & I feel like this is slowly getting harder & harder on my spouse & kids. I'm grateful to have lots of good work but not sure how to course correct.

like

Anyone know when Ch. 7 BKs must close by? Is this changed by when there are adversary proceedings (alleged fraudulent transfers made to a bank for CC payments)? Asking for my friend who is unfortunately involved bc of his parents, who are the debtors (he isn’t a defendant or a debtor in this, but the payments were made to a CC in his name—a CC he didnt know was opened in his name).

Its in Texas, and the initial BK filing was made about 23 months ago. TIA!

like

Work is an emotional rollercoaster - change my mind.

like

Any antitrust experts want to opine on the FB news? I’m certainly no expert, haven’t read the actual complaint, and am all for competition laws, but it does strike me as odd that the FTC is coming in long after the fact to scrutinize certain acquisitions.

likehelpful

As lawyers are there ways to get paid for connecting clients?

like

Rising 2L here…Just found out yesterday that one of my top target law firms is not participating in OCIs (they don’t have offices in my state). Any advice on the best way to move forward with them? Still planning to apply, just want to know what I should be doing. Thanks!

like

Feel like I am potentially on the verge of developing tendonitis / carpal tunnel. I try to keep my (standing) desk ergonomically aligned but the reality is that I spend 8-14 hrs a day typing (and, probably, tense) and I’m concerned about rendering myself physically unable to do this job. Anyone dealt with this?

likehelpful

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal