Related Posts
Bowl Leader
Any know what deal advisory at KPMG is like?
Bowl Leader
Any techs who worked at Boston children's ?
Additional Posts in Attorneys of Color
Hi I run a podcast called The Lawtrepreneur Briefing that explores what's makes a modern lawyer modern. We do this by having conversations with people driving the transformation of the legal profession.
Excerpt of the most recent conversation can be found here: https://twitter.com/lawtrepreneurco/status/1282688181419347968?s=19
If any of you have thoughts about the subject, I'd love to have you on. You can apply to speak here: https://www.lawtrepreneur.co/podcastguest/
Rising Star
New to Fishbowl?
Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
Black male here… I’ve observed over the course of my career that my biggest “Ops” are in this order: black women (particularly if in manager/supervisory role), white women, white men, then black men. Can’t speak for anyone else, but I haven’t had too many overt issues with white men. And, like everyone else said, don’t allow others have that kind of power or psychological control over you. They tend to know who’ll be “bothered” versus those who aren’t for the B.S. No need to be defensive either. Just be comfortable in your skin.
Blk women are our most significant ops.
Rising Star
I’m not sure why folks are gaslighting you, but this definitely happens. Opposing counsel use all the weapons they can, and it makes sense that they would deploy racism and sexism against you. This behavior can vary in overtness based on region, too.
Is your partner recognizing this behavior and protecting you? If not, that is a red flag that you’re not in a safe working environment.
🤦🏾♂️
Pro
OP, yes. Absolutely. I’d say that of all the white men I have encountered over my 25+ year career, about 75 to 80% have been OK to professional/pretty awesome. But the 20 to 25% who are not, are egregiously not, eg. seething Trumpish exemplars of awfulness and old boys club attitude. The kind who copy your Managing Partner to try to get you in trouble and worse.🤣. Your experience is absolutely real, and there are ways to deal with that, and it includes moving out of your comfort zone to calling it out because as Maya Angelou says, unfortunately, you teach people how to treat you. Permitting the micro-aggressions and macro-aggressions to go unchallenged, simply means, to them, that they have permission to continue doing it. You cannot nice girl or grin widely enough for them to see your humanity because their white supremacy will never permit it.
But the gaslighting comments that you’ve gotten from others here raises another fascinating issue: the self hatred and ultimate desire of so many Black & IPOCs to be white men, not withstanding gender or race. My PhD son has seen this thread & points out that people across the board simply will not hold white men accountable, infantilizing them as precious & believing they have a personal Ruckus-like obligation to defend them. Take for example the dusty who used your post that had nothing to do with Black Women to attack Black Women. Imagine that, you are an attorney asking for help dealing with a white man and an incel responds, never mind that let me tell you about how bad Black Women are. My son points out that the reason you were getting these vitriolic comments is because these commenters think that you are a Black Woman attorney (I don’t, I think you are an Asian woman), so they are comfortable attacking you & gaslighting, whereas if they knew that it was not the case they wouldn’t dare. Its unhinged, and a bit psychotic, but it goes to the broader issue of why your white male opposing counsel believes that he can get away with behaving unprofessionally as concerns you: he is secure that no one will correct him and we’ll go the extra step of protecting him. These posts where even BIPOC attorneys, men no less, prostrate themselves to prove that “ the white boys like me it must be a you problem,” speaks volumes about white male privilege and why it is maintained. So even where is here, in the attorneys of color, fishbowl chat, where the white men are not in the room you’re gonna have Black & IPOC people setting themselves on fire, practically to defend them.
The question for you becomes where do you want to be in this spectrum: the dignity end or the dusty end? If it’s about the dignity, you’re going to have to stand up for yourself because as you can see there is rarely anyone who will do it for you or even come to your defense. Good luck.
Pro
Partner 2–What made you think OP is an Asian American woman?
Sometimes, and I also think, in my case, it has to do with age too since I am usually the youngest attorney in the room. People say with time and experience it will barely be noticeable but going into my third year, I can’t say whether there is too much truth to that. Your experience is real and in line with the history of the legal industry and the current landscape of the country. Hope you find a way to manage that doesn’t sideline your ability to do great work. If you have a safe partner at the firm you can discuss this with, I’d say do that.
No. No one makes me feel less than because I don’t give other people power over my emotions. If you know your worth and value, that’s what matters most. Don’t give people power over you.
A1, you’re making assumptions. I responded to the post. OP asked if others feel the same way and I said I don’t and explained why I don’t. I’m not sure why you’re even responding to me other than to be contrarian. 👋🏽
No that’s just you. I’m constantly in opposition with White male OCs and they are nicest to me. I’m a Blk female.
I’m surely not discounting your experiences. But I just have not experienced it. *knock on wood* if I take a look back at my entire career, my biggest issues do not include white people. They include a few jealous black women or non w/b people.
OP I’m definitely not going to tell you that that isn’t happening cause it certainly could be. Obviously don’t let it try and get to you but more than that I would respectfully push back whenever you think it’s happening. Don’t ever let someone play you like that.
No.