Enthusiast
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Coach
I haven’t heard any mid-levels applauding no junior raises (and I don’t), but to be fair, many of the mid-levels have spent most of their careers at home. So clearly it’s possible to learn and get training remotely. Like others have said, it’s mostly on you to try to gather knowledge as you go. While not ideal, sometimes there just isn’t time to train you and you have to just look at what went on and try to put the pieces together (we’ve all had to do so).
Also, many of us have spent the majority of our careers at home - don’t jump on the bandwagon of trying to displace us into an office. For some of us, our best set up is home (for example, the monitors in my work office suck and make it way harder to review diligence charts than the one I have in my home office).
I’m a third year and treated like a mid level in my group, so I’ve spent 2/3 of my career in big law at home. The only thing I really miss is being social with other associates, but not really anything training-wise. For example, I’d say I’ve learned a lot more virtually by just watching how my seniors respond to emails to others, seeing their redlines, comparing my drafts against precedent, etc. It’s absolutely possible to thrive WFH, but I definitely get that the social aspect is missing.
Coach
Gotta tell you most of us googled for knowledge. Or just ran a bunch of redlines to see what changed between deals. Training is not at all guaranteed, in person or otherwise. Recommend spending your time sitting there getting smart.
Im on the litigation side and the lack of training really sucks, I have no idea what I’m drafting and my writing is getting worse lol. We need feedback!
Enthusiast
Tbh the reading comprehension demonstrated by the juniors insisting this is what’s happening suggests base salaries should be reduced
Enthusiast
Why are there so many junior associates with victim complexes these days? You make $215K a year before bonuses for an entry level job (more than what we made at your level), and you'll make what we make if you stick around for a few years. Stop being a baby.
The pay thing is funny because none of us really add anything to society. We are all here because without us the other side's lawyers would fuck the client over. If there were no other lawyers the clients wouldn't need us. In a just world we'd all be homeless.
Subject Expert
Lawyers are not the problem lol. The biz people are the ones who pretend to be all nice and want to make a handshake deal and then screw each other when the going gets tough. That’s why they need some sensible people to make them work out the arrangement and paper it. And they also want us to do it immediately and perfectly which is why our rates keep going up.
But I don’t disagree that we’re all pretty much just making rich people richer.
Subject Expert
I find it funny that there is like one really bitter junior who keeps posting over and over that mids and seniors are celebrating that DPW and Cravath didn’t re-raise Milbank for juniors when we literally don’t give a shit. We get it, you’re really angry.
Welcome to biglaw. It’s not a fun time. What you’re feeling is not unique to you, and it was not better when we were all in person. The job has always sucked, you will either adjust or wash out. Figure out which one you want and stop trying to force me into the office for your fictional office environment.
Enthusiast
Senior here, only care what I’m paid, not what anyone else is.
And training juniors is my favorite non-billable activity, especially because they appreciate it and are then willing to help me with my work when I’m under water. Many of my colleagues see training juniors as part of the job. If your senior doesn’t, try to find some new seniors.
Subject Expert
Ditto. Main time I get to feel smart. 😂
Enthusiast
Also, lots of us are refusing to come into the office for good reason—the job is far better in terms of quality of life for many of us this way. Holding the line helps both us and the more junior associates who may get to keep this option down the line. I get that it has its drawbacks, 100%, but it’s important to consider that we aren’t just too lazy to put on pants. I would have left the firm if my life as a senior was what I saw when we were in the office every day. The market is in our favor and we have this leverage right now. Let us use it and maybe this behind-the-times profession will benefit longterm.
The truth is that being in the office as a junior sucked. Waiting around for someone to give you comments, waiting for partner x to leave so you could go home and at one firm I worked out getting yelled at a lot
Mentor
As a junior I have not heard any of the kind of bitching from mids and seniors you are describing.
Also am very grateful for the patient, thoughtful and friendly instruction and mentorship I have been getting the last 1.5 years from my mid and senior level mentors, all of it remote.
Hope you can find a better place OP, either mentally or in terms of workspace.
Your never to senior to believe in magic.
Hey man, i get paid $$ to use correct grammar when needed.
I really don’t like when people use the phrasing “said” like “said juniors” I see it mostly in pro se filings and submissions by unsophisticated counsel.
Coach
#teamaforementioned
I think it might be less about training on the whole and more about being able to connect with a senior / mid lvl who becomes a mentor and friend. That kind of close relationship can definitely change a juniors career and is much harder to form remotely.
I don’t celebrate it all at. I found being a junior more difficult than being a mid or senior. Y’all deserve your raises.
Subject Expert
Good god, reading the responses truly shows how most lawyers are just miserable people or miserable to other people. I can't wait to quit this profession in another couple of years.
You are responsible for you. It’s your career. Expecting another person to build it or train you for it is not a good use of your time.
There’s a learning curve for juniors to realize they’re not in law school anymore — no one is looking out for them to ensure they learn everything or have adequate experience. They have to advocate for themselves