I have a question I should have asked four years ago. When you are citing to a page number of a memo of law filed on the docket (ex: Dkt. 4, at 5), do you cite to the page number in the footnote of the brief, the one placed by the ECF filing stamp (which is not always added in my district), or do you cite to the page number of the PDF?

like
Posting as :
works at
You are currently posting as works at

In our district, if ECF is available by ECF. If ECF not available, then page number in the footer.

like

Usually no hard and fast rule in this but I usually go with the page number at the bottom of the page. That said some jurisdictions have local rules requiring you to use the document page number that is stamped on it by the ECF system.

like

I go by what is on the document I’m citing. If it has a number I cite (Dkt. 4) if not I cite Complaint at 5, Dkt.1. Double check local rules and chamber rules. If there is no guidance remember the point of a citation is to guide a person with the most accuracy to the evidence supporting your contention. Make a best attempt is all that’s necessary.

like

Always use the ECF stamp. Can never be any confusion.

like

No I’m talking about the other option. OP asked if you would ever cite to the PDF page, which can be different than the page number in the footnote of the brief due to the title page, TOC, TOA, etc.

like

If it’s ECF file stamped, since I am referencing that ECF stamp itself “ECF No. 4,” I cite to the page number in the ECF stamp. If no ECF stamp, I do the page number in the footer of the document. If the author didn’t include page numbers only then would I do the page of the pdf file.

like

Also FYI I think the proper cite for blue book is “ECF No. 4 at 7”

Thanks everyone! You know how it goes…sometimes years later you finally ask the question you have been wondering all along. Glad to see I haven’t been doing it all wrong. Cheers!

Related Posts

Any one got solid recommendations for Japanese restaurant that’s got both great Sushi and steak? Thanks in advance.

like

Looking for a referral to University of Texas at Austin! Found a few great roles that I would be a strong fit for.

like

Hey fishers, I'm looking for a job change. I have close to 10 years of experience in Google Ads Marketing (PPC)

Please let me know if there are any openings for the same.

Thank you

like

Can I give notice by email? Or is it truly preferred to call the partners directly? What if they don’t pick up?

like

Are there any books or other resources that mid levels/seniors/counsel/partners on here have found helpful for the project management / managing junior attorney aspects of your job?

I am not finding a lot of stuff written for lawyers specifically , but there is a lot directed at “managers” in business generally that I imagine could be applicable.

like

My firm’s holiday party is on a weekday after work. I can just wear what I’d normally wear to work for that day, right?

likefunny

Which RB should I start in addition to Saquon Barkley in this 1 PPR league?
-Alex Collins @ CLE
-Javorius Allen @ CLE
-Dion Lewis @ BUF
-Aaron Jones @ DET

Interviewed for the 2023 Enterprise Strategy Senior Consultant role at IBM. Went through to the behavioral interview after the case and am waiting to hear back. Any idea how long it usually takes?

like

Anyone here who works or has worked at Bell/Virgin? Reviews? What’s the place like for copywriters?

What are the most likely or common ways people are "coached out"? Is it generally a vague process or do they straight up tell you?

like
like

When can I expect the onboarding kit to get delivered ? I have joining in 7 days.

like

Transfer day!!!! Wish me luck!!! 🤞🏼

like

Has anyone hired an assistant ( virtual or otherwise) to help them with managing their life? Any tips/tricks/stories? I’m done with myself…..

like

I have an annual membership to tryexponent for FAANG and tech prep. I don’t need the membership anymore and have about 6-8 months. I can share my creds for $60. The content was extremely helpful, I made it to Amazon. Let me know if anyone’s interested

like
like

Hi i want to join back Accenture how should i reach out to hiring team for a boomerang opportunity Accenture

like

What were some circumstances where you have had to to let go of an internal company offer after accepting it?

like

Hi guys , Iam holding an offer with Comcast 12.5 lpa (12 fixed) and Empower retirement 16 LPA (14 fixed) . Iam very much confused. Please provide some suggestions on which one to choose?

like

Additional Posts in Litigation & Arbitration

I feel like this is the busiest billable December I’ve had. Anyone else absolutely swamped with work this month?

like

Anyone with document review experience able to give tips on running searches, specifically nextpoint?

like

When drafting a brief or other submissions for court or arbitration, do you use words such as clearly, erroneously, etc. to emphasize certain points? Our managing partner says that we should, but all of the writing guides for litigators that I've read repeats the mantra "show, don't tell" and explain that most judges dread such words.

I know that the politically correct thing to do here is to do whatever the managing partner wants me to do, but I just wanted to ask for other ppl's opinion.

like

I am an associate at an AM200 firm and was (IMO) very clear prior to accepting this role that I value work-life balance and wanted to try to keep work at night on the weekends to a minimal, but since February, it seems like it’s always something that requires my time as needed disregarding “business hours” or my personal schedule. Thoughts on whether to bring this up or continue to be a team player until I burn out and pay off my student loans?

likefunny

Have an opportunity to finally get out of insurance defense. But not really sold on the firm. Could finally get out of ID, but then could also end up at another place I really don't like. Def want my next firm to be long term as I've jumped around.

like

It may seem obvious, but in my experience partners value trial experience over anything else, so get it however you can. For example, my firm will favor a former prosecutor who has seen the courtroom a lot but has no civil litigation experience (not even a depo) over a seasoned associate who has only second chaired cases with a partner but hasn’t tried a case. Even trying a case and losing gives you credibility at my firm because you still did it.

like

Does anybody enjoy taking depositions?

like

Anyone who's done ID work right after law school but transitioned on to something else after a few years? Was your ID experience marketable? If so, in what other practice areas?

like

Any plaintiff’s attorneys on here from St. Louis? I might make the switch over from defense. Curious how much you all are making per year if you’re comfortable sharing. I’m trying to get an idea whether leaving the billable model and stress behind is worth the lower annual salary. Thanks!

like

What are some good professional goals to set in your first five years of practice? For context, commercial lit associate at boutique firm, so lots of opportunity for hands on experience. Just want some ideas of what I should be thinking about and aiming for. Thanks!

like

In Texas, does anyone have any advice on what questions to ask general contractor in deposition? We represent subcontractor. I think I have my outline completed but wanted to know if I was missing anything else.

like

I’ve been working at a rather prestigious midsized firm in a big city for almost a year and a half now. I have been having a lot of trouble picking up work from senior partners. We are required to bill at least 150 hours per month to meet our requirement. My months are typically only 110-130 hours. It seems like the senior partners already have their “go to” associate for things. Does anyone have any suggestions on how i can increase my workload? I reach out for work pretty much weekly.

like

How early in advance do you start preparing for a deposition that you are conducting? One month? One week? The night before?

like

So here in CA there is a lot of talk about certain jurisdictions doing virtual jury trials. As a firm we won’t agree to it and if push comes to shove we’ll take it up on. Writ. What is everyone else’s opinion?

like

How am I expected to bill 1900 hours when I only have 8 cases and when I ask for work no one responds. I even asked the partner in person for work and he said he was slow and didn’t have anything for me.This month I’ve only billed 80 hrs. Its making me anxious because I don’t want to get fired for low hours but also I’m a first year so will they have some mercy on me? Lol

like

Is sticking up for yourself even worth it? My boss is always on my ass as if I’m constantly missing, or about to miss, deadlines. I’ve never missed one. I’ve received the same damn lecture/email about monitoring all case deadlines a hundred times. I always just professionally explain that we’re not about to miss any and discuss the progress. Well, I’ve about had it and am ready to go off. I’m sick of basically being told that I’m not doing my job. How should I address this issue?

like

We calendar court deadlines and internal deadlines. Why do associates disregard internal deadlines?

like

I have my first solo hearing in front of opposing counsel and the Judge, were asking for a fee multiplier on a contingency case. This is in Florida BTW. Any tips or advice for my first hearing will be greatly appreciated.

like

If you know a law firm offering 100% remote Associate positions please comment below. Thanks!

like

I work at a small firm with not that many workable templates so I usually have to do everything from scratch like drafting motions, pleadings, and researching all potential counts every time. Do bigger firms have better and more templates that allow you to have to do less research?

like

New to Fishbowl?

Download the Fishbowl app to
unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.
That was just a preview…
Sign Up to see all discussions
  • Discover what it’s like to work at companies from real professionals
  • Get candid advice from people in your field in a safe space
  • Chat and network with other professionals in your field
Sign up in seconds to unlock all discussions on Fishbowl.

Already a user?
Login here

Share

Embed this post

Copy and paste embed code on your site

Preview

Download the
Fishbowl app

See what’s happening in your industry
from the palm of your hand.

A phone with Fishbowl app

Scan your QR code to download
Fishbowl app on your mobile

Download app

Sign up for free to view this conversation on Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

Already have an account? Log in

Sign up for free to continue using Fishbowl

By continuing you agree to Terms of Use(New) and Privacy Policy(New)
Messaging rates may apply

Already have an account? Log in

For account settings, visit Fishbowl on Desktop Browser or

General

Legal