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Wordle 474 2/6
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Do small law firms have paralegal managers?
Additional Posts in In-House Counsel
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I use to be in-house counsel and went to big law. Honestly, I FEEL FOR EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD. Going into big law, I am annoyed by the amount of dumb stuff that I have to do to run up a bill. I literally made a questionnaire for a client to fill out a form (the questionnaire asked the same exact questions as the form basically) when I could have sent the form so the client had access to the information they need to fill out the form. I've tried pushing back and im met with this is what clients want... Outside counsel is brainwashed. I suggest making billing guidelines and giving them budgets for each assignment. I recently elected to go to a smaller “big law” firm hoping that I have more control over not running up a tab for in-house folks since I would manage client relations with any client I bring in. 🫡 stay strong.
That's one way to not save money and honestly, id make them pay for it lol 😆. Helps me get to my bonus. If they don't like it, then don't ask. Haha. I can see how that can be annoying though.
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Outside counsel not being responsive was an absolute shock to me when I went in-house, particularly since I made being responsive a very high priority (which was the reason my client recruited me to come work for them).
Pro
I mean, just return my call and tell me when you’ll turn the work around.
How hard is that?
Way too many partners doing associate work.
And how did the partner learn to do associate work in less time?
2 biggest peeves:
1) Charging me for hours of research I could have done in half the time (particularly if you use an expensive resource to do it). I use external counsel because I either assume you are an expert and not looking at this issue completely fresh or because my team could do it but just don't have the time. When I know a question is probably 3-5 hours of research and you charge me for 12 hours, that really pisses me off.
2) Promising me you'll get something to me on a particular timeline and then not doing it. I give my teams time estimates based on that, and not meeting the promised timeline either puts me in a crunch or just makes me look bad.
Maybe, but most people know that that is how big law works, so it really shouldn’t be too much of a surprise. (And the expert - the partner - should be reviewing the research and the bill accordingly).
Being asleep at 2am, c’mon guys, for $1,200/hr, figure it out
Deep breaths bud, it’s gonna be ok
Charging too much for menial tasks ha
I mean, you should probably just do them yourself then? If you want outside counsel to do it, you have to pay for their time, no matter how easy the stuff you have them do is.
I got charged last week for 12 mins. Task was to send an email with EINs for new entities.
Not gonna pay for that. Only makes me angry.
Pro
Trust me, they won’t be assigned much work in the future.
Everyone can continue to comment on this and say what you want, but I’ve made my case and I’m the one picking counsel and paying the bills. So I guess my point is, be practical about how you’re presenting the work your doing to clients.
Overstaffing. You don’t need 6 associates attending a virtual hearing. If you want them there to learn, fine, but don’t bill me for it.
Asking for calls and talking nonstop instead of just sending a markup.
Not answering the question they've been asked, and instead providing information that tangentially relates to that question. 🙃
If you don't understand the assignment, ask!
Telling me the firm has partners who can advise on an area of law when, it turns out later, they really can’t.
I get the impulse to position your firm as my one stop shop but don’t lie to me. Dropped a firm from our panel this year for such shenanigans.
Some big firm bid on a project I had, set up initial call, and the whole call was them promising to research the issue. Then they transitioned to telling me how they all used to work for the Clinton Foundation…I was like, dude, it’s a healthcare question, I don’t need to launder money.
Chief
Emailing me on holidays
Rising Star
They don’t understand what’s most important to me and the business (hint, it’s often not “winning” the case). Every other issue stems from that.
Rising Star
The number of cases where fighting fire with fire actually makes sense is extremely small. I will “fight and vigorously defend” the company if it matters. My point is don’t assume that’s what I want to do unless I make clear that’s what we want done.
Giving me a legal memo that fails to take a side when I need clear, actionable advice.
This. A hundred times over. I ask/pay OC for a direction or best option based on their expertise and what they see across the industries as a best practice. By the time I’m going to OC I’ve already weighed all the risks and legal issues.
- Not understanding the business they are advising. See this even at the partner level, which is inexcusable.
- Related, failing to give actionable advice for a given scenario
- Not delivering on time even for relatively simple work.
- Failing to provide a differentiated service - why am I paying you vs. the guy down the street who charges 1/2 to 2/3 the bill rate.
- Billing fluff, seen it all here
- Inconsistent quality - so dependent on the lawyer
- Inefficient communication - I just want to talk to the person that can address the issue and also, this is 2023, there are alternatives to e-mail
- Overselling expertise esp. in niche/emerging areas of the law
Excellent advice. What other ways besides email do you prefer communications? He’s did some billing fluff? Do you use flat fee agreements?
Overstaffing attorneys, nonresponsiveness (literally never responded to my email despite follow up and still billed me for it), and not sticking to work completion timeliness that they themselves communicated.
If they are junior it's possible they drafted a reply but it was never approved to go out
A few things I saw as in-house that drove me absolutely nuts:
1) work that was obviously not reviewed (i.e., obviously junior work - like making conclusions in a statement of facts, or without much analysis, incorrect dates/docket number/etc.)
2) work executed with poor judgment, or without taking our company's interests to heart (e.g., a patent application that essentially discusses technological workarounds of privacy laws as an "invention")
3) Failing to adapt to feedback (this one is HUGE - I don't write uncomfortable emails for my health; don't make me do it over and over for the same issue)
4) Flirting with ethics (especially when it comes to strategy/billing - you are a fiduciary. Act like it. If you think I can't see your non-impactful strategy, or your drawing out of a process, or your filing of unnecessary documents - basically nickel-and-diming me with ineffective sh*t - think again)
5) Treating your own people poorly - if I catch wind that you're a jerk to work with, I will not send you work. Period. Law is plenty toxic already - I don't want to contribute to it, even tangentially.
6) Poor timeliness (prob most common issue). Even the best brief becomes worthless, if it's late. I'm not looking for miracles or overnight turnaround, but if you have 3 months to do a 40-hour task, I expect you to get it done on time.
7) Short-sighted work (i.e., work performed with the assumption this contract/patent/NDA/work product will never see a courtroom, or where a strategy is implemented for a short-term gain, but at long-term expense, e.g., fudging a permit application to get it issued, but while knowing it could cause a problem if litigated)
Anyway, that's just a few of the more common irritations I had with OC; I could go on for a while, lol. Hope it's insightful and helpful.
Bet that was therapeutic. I felt your pain.
Not giving diverse attorneys an opportunity to work on big ticket matters, over billing, handing off the work to staff, and not responding to emails in a reasonable time.
If I make a minor (under $500) reduction to your invoice for excessive time, I don’t want to debate about how “reasonable” you believe the charge is.
Saying they can advise on an area of the law when they really can’t. If you’re using me as a learning opportunity, tell me and give me the appropriate discount.
And treating associates badly. That comes around to us. I’m not going to instruct partners who are known assholes to their subordinates. Already have a partner on my blacklist.