{ "media_type": "text", "post_content": "Thoughts? How is this fair to ADs when CWs still only need to know how to write? Agreed that ANY well rounded creative is more valuable, but the road to a CCO position is different for an AD vs a CW", "post_id": "603918902223d600217783d8", "reply_count": 38, "vote_count": 11, "bowl_id": "594f0b7a1753b200102d1a8f", "bowl_name": "Creatives", "feed_type": "bowl" }

Thoughts? How is this fair to ADs when CWs still only need to know how to write? Agreed that ANY well rounded creative is more valuable, but the road to a CCO position is different for an AD vs a CW

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Any creative should be able to do (or at least know) a little bit about all the other parts of the job. I’m a copywriter but I can also art direct a little, direct an edit, do basic strategy stuff, write an okay brief, run a shoot, etc. I would never want to be the first choice for any of those things, but having at least the basics down makes me much better at my actual job because I understand how my side of the work interacts with the rest of a project.

It’s never been enough to be “just a ________”.

likesmart

I say yes, but... As you gain experience, you start to understand how the different disciplines work together to create great work. The ‘but’ is that promoting this type of thinking is what leads agencies to think they can save boat loads of money by hiring one creative, a hybrid CW/AD, instead of two. I’ve been seeing more of this with recruiting and it should be a NO.

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Yeah as a writer im kinda required to be able to build a deck, know how to evaluate design/art direction, hire DP’s for shoots, etc...

Both sides of the team need to know a little bit about the other.

likesmart

This is one person's opinion and tbh applies to both CW and ADs.

likesmart

I switched to copy years ago because being an art director meant a lot of extra work for the same pay.

likefunnyhelpful

AD & CW are both expected to concept ideas and execute them.

CWs usually express that in words, expected to use their minds and Word to execute, working with directors sometimes.

ADs usually express that visually, and are expected to use their minds...photoshop, illustrator, indesign, keynote, google docs, sketch, after effects, and any of the most up to date design software to execute. in addition, they have to be able to direct photographers, DPs, art departments, designers, and retouchers to complete the execution.

consider this: is it more labor intensive to describe what you want to see using words or actually make it?

both jobs are necessary and require creativity, but don’t fool yourself: on the craft/labor side, art directors have much more expectations.

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If you want to complain that ADs are expected to also be designers now, I would agree.

Instead you are complaining about things writers have also been doing even before the creative revolution put us on the same floor.

Maybe “IT Professional” is a more recent expectation... for both art and copy.

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@CD2 at good shops, ADs work with us writers to concept ideas and make it presentable to the CD and the client in hopes of getting it sold. That may involve deck building, quick comps, and yes, building a moodboard. I’ve also done these things and I want to say that putting a moodboard together is difficult if you give a shit, since many people will take what you present to them in a literal fashion.

Once it’s sold, the AD works with designers. And illustrators. And animators. And set designers. And anyone else we need to bring this to life. So do CWs, and it’s why a good producer or production shop can do wonders because even finding the right people can be a pain in the ass.

But I dunno. You’re the CD here so you tell me, why should an AD waste their time creating design systems, UX/UI mapping, assembling layouts, developing typography etc when there’s plenty else for a creative to do?

likesmart

Ahaha I just did a post about Juan Cabral. Check the credits for any of his work and it will be like:

Creative Director: juan cabral
Art director: juan cabral
CW: juan cabral
Director: juan cabral

likefunny

I thought there was a type when I was saw the credit list behind Cadbury Gorilla. Directed by Juan Cabral. Creative Directed by Juan Cabral. This man is a genius.

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It’s just one dude, so I don’t think of it as “unfair” because, ya know, this guy doesn’t make the rules.

I guess overall, ADs won’t be CWs/strat/AEs, but as you grow, you can identify a good line, or express an idea in a script, call out bad/good strategy, and manage clients a bit. And growth as a CW would be the same regarding some understanding of visual storytelling.

So he’s wrong when he says “being an AD isn’t enough”. Some 24 year old jr shouldn’t think that. But growth in all careers likely involves understanding your business as a whole.

likehelpful

Don't even acknowledge this, it's an unimaginative person trying to be "cool" on LinkedIn.

likefunny

The whole AD vs CW who works harder thing is a distraction. Comps can be more time consuming. But so can a blank page. A CW is expected to do more than write. Both of you are just as important. Work together.

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Sounds like a good way to be mediocre at everything. It’s important to have an understanding and appreciation for other disciplines, but better to focus on mastering one craft.

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The T-shaped person.

A CW is expected to be more of a strategist for sure

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This has always been the case. You need to be able to do everything if you want to be great. Otherwise you can just be good. Good is fine too.

This is a reflection of strategists and account thinking they can do the role of a CW or AD. It makes it so the management who doesn't understand our work expects us to do more. Otherwise they give strategists our work, and they produce minimum viable product that moves metrics. It's a nasty cycle. I've seen so many strategists promoted to CD in recent years, especially by WPP companies, it's mind boggling and a danger to our roles if we don't adapt to compete and meet the new demands as the industry evolves.

That is such a thing a recruiter would say. Surprised an AD said that.

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