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Chief
I have offer of 20 LPA from Oracle IDC Pune. Project is related to Oracle Primavera Cloud. I had a discussion with the hiring manager and everything sounded good to me.
I just wanted to know if there are any red flags I should be aware of. So please help me fishes.
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Bain & Company Which are the best consulting firms and practices for Climate Change & Sustainability, especially in the Canadian geography? Also, please suggest the best Canadian city for consulting jobs.
McKinsey & Company | Boston Consulting Group | Bain & Company | Kearney | LEK | EY | Oliver Wyman | PwC | Deloitte
#ClimateChange #Sustainability #Water #ESG
Rising Star
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Serious answer: MBB has a better trajectory if you’re willing to grind it out. I did FAANG swe internships but didn’t like it and now I’m an EM after 2 YOE and my FAANG friends and I are roughly equal in pay or I outearn them (based on what I think my TC this year should be).
If I make AP in a couple years it’ll really start to diverge. Making L5 isn’t even easy in tech it’s super political and it depends on your team (if you’re on a team that isn’t growing your only promotion hopes are via attrition).
Tech really beats consulting in 2 ways: junior comp those first couple years out of undergrad - not even close - and also the lack of “up or out” means you can get to a level you feel good at and coast for the rest of your career.
60% of EMs starting as BAs doesn’t mean industry poached half of them. Most of the rest of them started as Associates.
What a clown show
Object Oriented Programming is harder than aligning shapes on PPTs
Yea I don’t understand the comparison either - they are completely different jobs. Makes no sense to compare.
In 8 years, you make partner and pull on 7 figures. In tech, you’ll be making $600k tops.
Chief
That's fair, we'll see what happens
Consulting is an absolute scam of an industry. If you’re smart you should only do Tech / IB
C3 not that I care, but I promise you it wouldn’t be.
Please don’t comment if you have zero insights into software engineering since it’s clear most people don’t in this bowl
Chief
I was a dev before I switched to consulting.
What software engineering experience do you have, OP? Which tech firms have you worked for?
Rising Star
A software engineer is in way more demand than a generalist consultant at low levels and the pay reflects that accordingly. Not sure why you think because people go to ivies they should make more
i think the thought process is better school should give you access to better opportunities
Rising Star
They have hard skills
Agreed^ I feel like the answer is fairly straightforward? Hard skills pays more, plus the demand is higher for SWE.
It's complicated. My SO started as a SDE in FAANG one year later after I started consulting. I got paid about half starting off but now I make 1.5-2x depending on how the stock market performs. WLB is better in tech but consulting has a better trajectory.
Okay, fair. Same argument, though — meta has dropped 60% YTD. Uber/Airbnb - 35%. Lyft-70%.
Even if you do get new grants at lower price, it doesn’t mean the price is going to get increase. And the old grants are worth much less than before.
Because swe at FANNG + other top tech requires problem solving skills that aren’t taught at school.
Computer science is a very young space. School teaches you foundations of it and most are learned through reading, experiments and collaborations. Look at some of the architectural problems solved by FANNG like Netflix’s cloud architecture, AWS infrastructure and platform, scale of Google/Facebook/Twitter running sub-milli seconds transactions, billions of transactions per day across billions of servers, none of those are taught at any of the school.
In fact, engineers from those companies published those lesson learned for other companies in the industry to follow through. Those companies know that those engineers don’t need to come from big name schools coz none of those schools teach any of it. That’s why they are willing to pay for anyone who’s qualified, not which school they went.
Chief
Maybe that's a bad use of language
What I mean to say is that, in AI, a lot of the world's leading experts work at Universities. In Blockchain almost none of them do.
When I was in school, there wasn't a single course you could take to learn the subject and no professors had it listed in their areas of expertise/research.
Supply and demand. There’s a million smart kids with no real hard skills that can go into consulting or IB and don’t need to bring anything on day 1 besides being driven, willing to work and smart. There’s just not as many capable SWE who can actually build on day 1 (maybe a little runway).
Chief
"I can't believe the head of artificial intelligence at Meta earns more than me!"🤬
-Business Analyst, B.A. American Studies
The off time work belonging to your employer is misinformation. California made it illegal to do so as a while back long as you’re not competing with your employer. Non Competes are thus illegal and unenforceable in California
Wait what total compensation is only 130K for MBB?
400k is not average at all for L5, unless AI/ML
Pro
I could never become a SWE. Way too boring for me
Same bro, leave SWE to the nerds. I’m a consultant😎
Yes but you notice that pure tech has a ceiling if you go the Engineer (E) or Individual Contributor (IC) route? The highest you go is Principal at FAANG. Maybe you can make CTO of a startup or mid-sized company as a follow-on.
Note that Sundar Pichai (CEO of Google) came from McKinsey.
Sheryl Sandberg COO of Facebook former McKinsey.
The new Google Public Services CEO, Karen Dahut came from Booz Allen.
As an A.I. Solutions Architect I see this trend. Even if you do a tour of the entire FAANG (some people do 1 to 2 year stints at a time) I noticed that my former colleagues just have a tough time breaking into the C-class.
It is a different skill set to optimize code by milliseconds to save the company a couple of million dollars.
Versus the skills that can leverage their business network to win the company billions of dollars year-over-year. That is what is generally taught from capture management to mergers & acquistions that isn't taught in pure tech.
SC3 what are my motives?
Okay let me address each of your points.
This is an anonymous thread, I haven't name dropped any people.
My friends that I did my undergrad with happened to land at Google, Facebook, and Amazon it's been well over a decade so we just compare notes cause we started a private investment group together and we dump money into the same account 🤷♂️
Again I said "marginally more likeable" most tech nerds like me are socially awkward. I am not saying I am the most likeable guy in the world, I am saying you just have to be slightly better in the specific situation like an interview, like take an interviewing class kind of better.
If you can "read people" and "understand people's motives"...seems like a pretty obvious thing when someone is being honest and explicit experiences.
I am not gonna pretend like I have the EQ of Mother Teresa, especially since I matching condescending energy and not diffusing it.
But again, what motive and gains am I making by sharing anecdotal experiences on an anonymous thread?
I think it's 2 reasons primarily, both related to market forces:
1. Tech had been on massive growth run for past decade and prioritized revenue growth over all else (paid whatever required and gave lucrative benefits to attract top talent) vs. consulting which is much more mature and bottom-line oriented
2. Related to the above point, tech companies are (smartly) concerned about disruption and realize that for every top talent they procure (especially SWE), that's one less threat working for an existing competitor or startup. This contributed to massive comp packages. Consulting firms don't have this same threat and likely willing to lose some talent to competitors to keep margins reasonable
Given the state of the macro environment and slowed growth, I would guess the tech industry shifts to more of a bottom-line focus and comp packages / workplace perks come back to reality (far closer to consulting at entry level positions)
How so C6?
Cost and revenue structure of consulting and tech are different
There are software engineers who make 6 figures immediately after taking a 3 month boot camp with no college degree. The belief that there should always be a direct correlation between formal education and pay needs to be dismantled, seriously. Its about the value that you bring to the market. Period, end statement.
If anyone with a 3 month boot camp can do a job that makes 6 figures I’d be worried about that profession in the long run. Because it’s clearly a supply issue. It’s not purely the correlation between education and pay. Someone has to consistently be a top performer throughout their life to end up in the best of schools. There are so many qualities that these students have. You can’t compare to a Stanford PhD to someone that just did a 3 month boot camp.
Better school =/ your skillset is automatically in demand. It means you are good at taking tests most likely.
SWE is a skillset not a lot of people can understand and master. On the other hand, consulting is more like a concept that most people can practice can be pretty good at.
Good scores means you know how to prioritize the time and cognitive capabilities to reproduce quickly. When these skill matter test scores play a big game - do we need it for general copy-paste consulting probably not .. I have been SWE and also in consulting for 10+ years. Sharing if anyone questions my creds .. Engineering and MBA from Tier1 / Tier 2 schools.
RemindMe 1 Year "Is FAANG still paying SWEs $800K TC?"
As an older guy who's been in consulting 25 years, worked for Big 4 and boutiques in the past, lived through the dotcom boom and 2001-2003 bloodbath in it's aftermath, the global financial crisis, etc - people who entered the job market after 2015 have a completely distorted view of what tech careers and compensation have historically looked like.
Chief
Remind me what the pay is in one year
I expected a cost of living increase to $850k
Because software and automating processes is valuable. Slide decks googled by jr consultants is not valuable.